New Detroit daily?

texorama · #1 June 8th, 2009, 04:59 PM

WWJ is reporting that a couple of people who were involved with Detroit strikers' papers in the 1960s and 1970s are testing the waters for a new daily paper--did anyone hear this? I was in my car, but I can't find anything about it on the WWJ site or anywhere else. What were the names?

rustic2 · #2 June 8th, 2009, 05:22 PM

Yes, I heard about it. Found a press release at work. They're having a press conference on Tuesday in Southfield, I think. The Stern brothers. We sorely need a real newspaper in Detroit. The dailies, while they have their moments and their slick packaging, are on a steep downward spiral which will probably accelerate with the delivery changes and latest round of layoffs and buyouts, and have been in decline for years. I would love to see real competition give them a run for their money.

I've worked in the local news media for 20 years, and it's astonishing how many good, solid stories go barely mentioned or completely uncovered.

EastsideAl · #3 June 8th, 2009, 05:42 PM

Who would invest in a newspaper these days?

BShea · #4 June 8th, 2009, 05:54 PM

We sorely need a real newspaper in Detroit.

How do you define "a real newspaper?"

Often, people say a "real newspaper" is filled with stories reflecting their personal interests and opinions.

texorama · #5 June 8th, 2009, 05:58 PM

Here's the scoop.

http://www.wwj.com/Stop-the-Presses-...Daily-/4557651

dtowncitylover · #6 June 8th, 2009, 06:09 PM

As a future journalist myself and a Detroit lover, I hope if they do this, they open the newspaper in the city, not in Southfield or some other suburb.

texorama · #7 June 8th, 2009, 06:12 PM

It seems like an odd move. But I've always wondered why it wouldn't be possible to, essentially, run a small-town newspaper (some of which are still doing fine financially) in a big city. Think about a paper like the Petoskey News-Review, which only had a circulation of about 10,000 but was distributed over a huge area. They may have been less unionized, but their staff is small, and I don't think that would make the difference. Anyway, best of luck to them.

pffft · #8 June 8th, 2009, 06:59 PM

There were many "strike papers" during the '67-'68 newspaper strike, unlike the '95 strike (when the Sunday Journal was the strike paper) the earlier papers were done by entrepreneurs, not strikers.

I know of at least two or three '60s strike papers, although I never read any, my dad started bringing home the New York Times during that time.

rustic2 · #9 June 8th, 2009, 10:51 PM

A real paper, BShea? How much time and space have I got?

Let's start with one that does serious crime reporting, with stories and photos on the homicides, major shootings, drug busts, street robberies and other mayhem we know occur regularly in some of our towns -- and not just Detroit. The dailies currently ignore, or maybe devote only couple of paragraphs to, most of these crimes, unless there are multiple victims or the victims have a high profile or there is a major police screwup. Perhaps a string of stories like these would bring more pressure to bear on our elected officials and get them to make fighting crime a priority. And, yes, people love to read 'em.

Detroit alone had 300-something or 400-something homicides in 2008, depending on your source. How many actually made the paper?

Then let's move to the courts, where some of the above stories end up. Almost any given weekday, there's a dramatic trial, or several, going on at Frank Murphy. Victims' lives have been lost or shattered, defendants' lives are in the balance, ordinary citizens are called upon to judge their fellows -- and there's no reporter in the courtroom.

And how about the county civil court at CAY? A gold mine, if any reporter took the time to dig. Then there's the federal court down the street from the dailies. Another gold mine.

How about some real features on the people of Metro Detroit and what they're doing, good and bad? There're plenty examples of both. Good features are more than fluff, whimsical columns and columns designed to entice readers to buy stuff. I could go through detroityes forums and find at least a month's worth of feature story ideas.

Speaking of features, where's the books and arts coverage? Very limited. And business coverage? Either cheerleading or hand-wringing -- and too often facts are secondary to the author's opinion or analysis of them. We need more straight business reporting.

How about beat coverage (which would go for most of the topics mentioned here)? Reporters you can trust know their way around a given beat? There are shopping writers, why not a labor writer? Lansing coverage is just awful, and so is Washington coverage, for the most part (I do like Deb Price). And the daily staffers have next to zero regular presence in suburban communities, unless you count the occasional phone call to city hall. I was sitting in the mayor's office in Livonia one night in the 1990s when, no lie, a News reporter called and asked for Ed McNamara -- who hadn't been mayor for nearly a decade. Where do they get these people?

Then sports, which I don't follow much myself. Pro coverage is limited and so is collegiate (except when there's cheerleading to be done, and bring the clichés!), and prep coverage is almost nonexistent. When I was in high school the Freep had decent prep coverage -- photos, even, and not just at tournament time. Coverage of recreational sports, which would touch a lot of people, like running, biking, bowling, yoga, health clubs, etc, is spotty at best.

Finally, opinion. I haven't followed it in over a year, but when last I did, the Freep had very limited opinion pages, and didn't even run very many syndicated columnists. There was usually one main editorial, letters, and "blog" excerpts. If you were lucky, you got Leonard Pitts, whom I like. But on the whole it was crap. Maybe it's different with the electronic edition. I want to see a diversity of well-considered, well-expressed opinions, and humor.

Somewhere above, this description of a real newspaper turned into a rant against the dailies, but I think you get the picture. When you focus solely on the bottom line the bottom can fall out of your product, and, in my opinion, that's what happened with the News and Free Press.

Stosh · #10 June 8th, 2009, 10:58 PM

If these guys can pull a newspaper off to the scope of what was ONCE a newspaper here in the city, I'm all for it. I remember those strike papers, and while they were, in fact, skimpy by comparison to the real newspapers of the time, they were remarkably similar to what passes as journalism around here now.

irish_mafia · #11 June 8th, 2009, 11:26 PM

Rustic2,

Ha, you were in Bob Bennett's office at the time I am guessing.

What you are describing is what I have been ranting about the lack of for years! The answer that I always get is the chicken and the egg problem of no advertisers, no $$ for real reporters, etc. If it could be produced again, i would buy it. i just don't know if the business model exists to succeed.

rustic2 · #12 June 9th, 2009, 11:05 PM

Close, Irish. The mayor was Kirksey, but Bennett hadn't been out of office long. Come to think of it, it was probably some sorry-ass scab reporter (the strike was still on) shipped in from God knows where. I should cut him (or her) some slack.

rustic2 · #13 June 9th, 2009, 11:21 PM

Irish, you're probably right, that model likely wouldn't succeed. A guy can dream, though. ... Maybe I've got the rose-colored glasses on, but it seemed that the dailies of yesteryear helped us create a sense of community and shared destiny and common purpose. Now, everyone's just into his own thing, distracted by the phone and the texting device. I would love to see some of those Detroit crime stories of 30 years ago. Maybe a trip to the library for microfilm. ...
On the other hand, if I could sell a subscription for everyone who's saying, "I want to hold a paper in my hands," we'd be on our way.

pffft · #14 June 9th, 2009, 11:29 PM

I seem to have stumbled into a parallel world Detroit, where there are no print newspapers anymore.

scuola · #15 June 10th, 2009, 10:36 AM

Walk to the store and buy your daily paper--they are still there.

But for quality...how about a "Crains Detroit Daily" expanded beyond business coverage?

Can I dream?

sehender1 · #16 June 10th, 2009, 10:41 AM

rustic2:

Just a quick response to your initial post, which criticized the Freep's opinion pages.
You should take a look at www.FreepOpinion.com, which is our presence on Freep.com.

It's all the stuff from the paper, plus many more op/eds that don't see print. We are still one of the first place people go if they have something important they want to say in metro Detroit and Michigan...

We have a blog that features members of the editorial board, our cartoonist Mike Thompson and a weekly guest blogger. We've had state reps and congresspeople, environmentalists and economists, all from all over the spectrum, as part of that guest blogger feature.

The blog itself gives readers a more personal way to connect with our editorial writers, and with me, and gives us a chance to opine on far more topics than we could fit into the ink-on-paper product.

Our next project has to do with letters to the editor... right now on the site, you can just read the ones that appeared in the current day's paper. But we've got something very robust planned and three-quarters built. It is a first-of-its-kind effort among newspapers, and I'm pretty excited about its possibilities.

We'll also soon (crossing my fingers for all this to work out) get heavily into video; everyone from the governor to the neighborhood community activists comes to see us, so I'd like to get readers a chance to "sit in" on all of those meetings if they'd like - either the whole meeting or a smartly edited portion.

We'll also be adding weekly chats at some point that'll feature decision-makers that most readers can't get access to on their own. You want to talk to Ficano or Bing or Levin, we hope to be able to get you that access.

We'll also begin featuring links to far more syndicated columns than we could ever print in the paper.. hoping to become something of a one-shop-stop for links to some of the best commentary available from around the country..

FreepOpinion.com is in its first life (1.0) right now... and it's doing pretty well. We've gotten pretty good at getting stuff from there into the Freep.com most popular list..
When we unveil our second iteration, it'll only get better.

I share everyone's frustration with the dwindling ink-on-paper products... but believe me that's just about economics. The business model for a wide-distribution, printed newspaper is just crumbling.

But I'm very excited about the possibilities that exist for us online, and our readers are, too. In some ways, we're able to do even more there - start a conversation, rather than issue an opinion edict, and let it grow from there.

Hope you'll check us out..

pffft · #17 June 10th, 2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scuola

Walk to the store and buy your daily paper--they are still there.

Ah, somebody who lives outside the parallel universe.

Bearinabox · #18 June 10th, 2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sehender1

But I'm very excited about the possibilities that exist for us online, and our readers are, too. In some ways, we're able to do even more there - start a conversation, rather than issue an opinion edict, and let it grow from there.

If the comments on freep.com articles are any indication as to what such a "conversation" might entail, then I think an edict would be far more sensible and productive.

pffft · #19 June 10th, 2009, 05:31 PM

"Crowdsourcing" is what Gannett prefers...

sehender1 · #20 June 10th, 2009, 05:34 PM

Bearinabox:

You're right about the comments in many parts of Freep.com.. but I think at FreepOpinion.com, we've done just a little better with cultivating an actual conversation... Take a look at this thread: http://www.freep.com/article/2009060...anders++health

Or this one, which is about gay marriage: http://www.freep.com/article/2009060...n+gay+rights?+

Yes, some of the comments are pointed. And some fail to add much substance to the discussion. (though you see that in nearly all online forums, I think.)

But on balance, these are constructive conversations taking place... We're working at pretty hard, and I think we've been fairly successful..

Ravine · #21 June 10th, 2009, 09:22 PM

As soon as the new paper comes out, I will buy it. Unless it is truly terrible, I will continue to buy it.
I recognize a certain whining poutiness in my feelings about the decline & partial fall of the Freep, but there was a time when the idea of going without my daily Free Press was nearly unthinkable. Now, I choose to go without it, because I think it sucks.
I confess that I am suffering from a bit of jilted-lover syndrome, and I don't mind admitting it.

kenp · #22 November 11th, 2009, 08:43 AM

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Detroi...?v=wall&ref=mf

BShea · #23 November 11th, 2009, 12:00 PM

I had a follow-up story on the Press in Monday's Crain's, FYI.

gnome · #24 November 11th, 2009, 01:13 PM

I think Gary Stern wrote some famous do-op song ... like Run Around Sue or some such thing... he sold off the rights to pay for the delivery of his infant son. Bill, there is an angle you might not have heard of.

1KielsonDrive · #25 November 11th, 2009, 01:29 PM

I'd make a modest investment toward a start-up and subscribe for a year or so to see if it's worthwhile.

ordinary · #26 November 11th, 2009, 01:57 PM

Am I having deja vu? I could have sworn I saw something about this on the forum about a year ago. If there were a new paper available I would definitely buy it as long as it wasn't too much of a rag.

It will be a sad day when there are no more printed newspapers. I blame people such as my kids. They will probably never buy a paper. Also sad because I probably won't be able to go to the bathroom anymore. I just can't see sitting there with a laptop!

Detroitnerd · #27 November 11th, 2009, 02:13 PM

I love how publications that call themselves "REAL DETROIT" or "DETROIT DAILY PRESS" are not based in Detroit proper.

RealityCheck · #28 November 11th, 2009, 02:44 PM

High-flyin' rhetoric at their Facebook page, which kenp linked to this AM.

Quote:

An unparalleled calibre of talent from The Free Press, The Detroit News, Oakland Press, and other news sources, are on board to give metro Detroiters the daily newspaper they're clamoring for. An unparalleled calibre of talent from The Free Press, The Detroit News, Oakland Press, and other news sources, are on board to give metro Detroiters the daily newspaper they're clamoring for. . . . The Detroit Daily Press has its finger on the pulse of the tri-county area.

Really? That's what they're going with?

* Unparalleled anywhere in the known universe of journalism, or just the English-speaking world?

* Calibre spelled that way as a nod to Canadian neighbours or our British roots?

* Metro folks are clamoring for a new daily paper? In print? These are people who've quit the chain dailies, but clamor for local indie journalism . . . or non-readers who don't yet realize this is what they're clamoring for?

* And what's up Doc with this pulse-taking - - we getting a newspaper or another health plan? Deliver news; hold the cliches.

Amateurish start.

1KielsonDrive · #29 November 11th, 2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealityCheck

High-flyin' rhetoric at their Facebook page, which kenp linked to this AM.Really? That's what they're going with?

* Unparalleled anywhere in the known universe of journalism, or just the english-speaking world?

* Calibre spelled that way as a nod to Canadian neighbours or our British roots?

* Metro folks are clamoring for a new daily paper? In print? These are people who've quite the chain dailies, but clamor for local indie journalism . . . or non-readers who don't yet realize this is what they're clamoring for?

* And what's up Doc with this pulse-taking - - we getting a newspaper or another health plan? Deliver news; hold the cliches.

Amateurish start.

Wha'd you expect? Parralleled? Uninterested? Pulse robbing? It's called marketing. Or, in a parallel universe, lieing.

RealityCheck · #30 November 11th, 2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

Wha'd you expect?

Actually, Jack Webb put it well as Sgt. Joe Friday on Dragnet:

Quote:

All we want are the facts . . .
All I know are the facts . . .

(Yes, I dropped the "ma'am" part, Sir.)

Point is, getting hard-sell marketing hype/boasts/spin/shilling from a not-yet-published newspaper doesn't exactly inspire confidence that we'll get a serious, professionally edited, trustworthy addition to Detroit journalism .

The News, Freep and Metro Times market themselves without crass, midway-like barking reminiscent of "The Greatest Show on Earth." Come to think, maybe the Stern Bros. believe there's a sucker born every minute.

kenp · #31 November 11th, 2009, 04:04 PM

I tried to open the Crains article but you need a login. I could care less about their marketing on Facebook, its good to finally hear about this again. The bottom line is we will all find out what this paper has to offer when it comes out, then decide if we want to subscribe.
Any additional information would be great.

BShea · #32 November 11th, 2009, 04:09 PM

Announcement on Friday. I'll be covering it, so check crainsdetroit.com for updates then.

HarperNottingham · #33 November 11th, 2009, 09:15 PM

Got my hands on their commemorative first issue today. Twas on the thin side, of course, but that's just a sneak peek. Looks like all the bones are in place. Now to add some meat to those bones. A little disheartening to see Rob Parker's worn-out byline in there. Tired old sports drivel from yet another sports clown. Looking forward to see how the Daily Press pans out over the next few months.

pffft · #34 November 11th, 2009, 09:52 PM

Ah, the same Rob Parker who predicted the death of print journalism when he left the News?

Det_ard · #35 November 12th, 2009, 10:25 AM

Rob Parker? Great! Now if they can just steal Mitch Albom away that'll ensure I'll never buy their paper.

crawford · #36 November 12th, 2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

I love how publications that call themselves "REAL DETROIT" or "DETROIT DAILY PRESS" are not based in Detroit proper.

Maybe because most of what constitutes "Detroit" is no longer in the city limits?

What's more "real"? The middle class families of Macomb County, or the wasteland that is much of the East Side of Detroit?

det313grrl · #37 November 12th, 2009, 12:29 PM

"A newspaper is not just for reporting the news. It is to get people mad enough to do something about it."~Mark Twain
It would be great if we had such a newspaper.

Detroitnerd · #38 November 12th, 2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crawford

Maybe because most of what constitutes "Detroit" is no longer in the city limits?

What's more "real"? The middle class families of Macomb County, or the wasteland that is much of the East Side of Detroit?

Well, if you're a newspaper, you usually set up your headquarters near what you'll be reporting on. That's why the Detroit dailies, heck, even Metro Times, are a few blocks from Detroit's municipal center. That physical presence makes it easier to report on city government, and to swing out to stories in the surrounding areas.

A newspaper like Real Detroit covers mostly the suburban bar scene, with occasional forays down Woodward. It makes sense why they're headquartered in Ferndale: That's central to what they cover. Same thing with Hour Magazine in Royal Oak: It covers suburban upscale dining, suburban homes, with plenty of luxury advertising for the wealthier folks out there.

The idea that a "Detroit" daily would set up shop in Royal Oak suggests to me a few possibilities.

1) These guys are not serious about covering downtown Detroit.

2) These guys are older suburbanites who don't care to commute very far from where they live.

3) These guys are hobbyists setting up shop in their basement or garage.

None of those conclusions is very flattering.

I'll be waiting to see what Shea comes up with by way of coverage before I leap to any conclusions, though. My initial skepticism remains, for now.

thefishwrap · #39 November 12th, 2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

3) These guys are hobbyists setting up shop in their basement or garage.

No idea about the other points you made, but they have set up shop at the former home of the Daily Tribune newspaper on Third Street in downtown Royal Oak. The Tribune moved out of that building and into the Macomb Daily offices in Mt. Clemens late last year.

I'm intrigued to see what they produce. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it's a NY Post style paper for Detroit.

Detroitnerd · #40 November 12th, 2009, 02:25 PM

fishwrap: It's entirely possible that it's my complete pessimism at work.

maxx · #41 November 12th, 2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by det313grrl

"A newspaper is not just for reporting the news. It is to get people mad enough to do something about it."~Mark Twain
It would be great if we had such a newspaper.

From an era when newspapers were important at least to the people who wanted to know something. OTOH, maybe Hearst took this comment from Twain when he reported on the sinking of the Maine.

BShea · #42 November 12th, 2009, 03:26 PM

I don't think they suggested they're just covering Detroit. They said from the start they're covering Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties. Maybe it makes sense then to be in RO? They've also said they'll targeting traditional readers who prefer a home-delivered newspaper daily. I'd guess their target audience lives in the 'burbs, but we'll know more tomorrow.

casscorridor · #43 November 12th, 2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crawford

Maybe because most of what constitutes "Detroit" is no longer in the city limits?

What's more "real"? The middle class families of Macomb County, or the wasteland that is much of the East Side of Detroit?

No. They are not Detroit. East Side "wasteland" is the REAL Detroit. And Downtown And West Side and SW Side. NOT ferndale.

I'm sick of hearing about suburban places robing the Detroit name. Just like they robbed all the people and stores and investment. But even tho they have all that, they are still not Detroit.

"Read Detroit" is a sham. Who do they really think they are calling themselves not only Detroit, but REAL Detroit?!?! I have all a question... how many people of color are pictured or writen about in RD? Not many. Why dont they rename themselves Real White Suburban Detroit? Guess it doesnt ring, eh? Well maybe they should actually locate in Detroit and start covering the real Detroit they CHOOSE to ignore.

Diehard · #44 November 12th, 2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by det313grrl

"A newspaper is not just for reporting the news. It is to get people mad enough to do something about it."~Mark Twain
It would be great if we had such a newspaper.

Have you completely forgotten about the Freep and KwameGate?

How about today's front page story in the News about the blatant abuse of forfeiture laws by Metro Detroit police? If that doesn't get some people mad, I don't know what will.
http://detnews.com/article/20091112/...n-the-innocent

If the new daily can break important stories like that, more power to 'em. There's plenty of news here to keep them busy.

Stosh · #45 November 12th, 2009, 04:47 PM

I think that any newspaper in this region would succeed if they concentrated on LOCAL news, not just parroting national or international wire service reports. IT seems as if every paper around here wants to cover everything, and ends up covering nothing. National and international news is great, but you can get that a lot of different places. Cut that back to a half a section, then go all out on local.

What do you have to lose?

Detroitnerd · #46 November 12th, 2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stosh

I think that any newspaper in this region would succeed if they concentrated on LOCAL news, not just parroting national or international wire service reports. IT seems as if every paper around here wants to cover everything, and ends up covering nothing. National and international news is great, but you can get that a lot of different places. Cut that back to a half a section, then go all out on local.

What do you have to lose?

I agree totally with that sentiment.

thefishwrap · #47 November 12th, 2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stosh

I think that any newspaper in this region would succeed if they concentrated on LOCAL news, not just parroting national or international wire service reports. IT seems as if every paper around here wants to cover everything, and ends up covering nothing. National and international news is great, but you can get that a lot of different places. Cut that back to a half a section, then go all out on local.

What do you have to lose?

They don't focus on Detroit (as both are in the 'burbs), but C&G News (www.candgnews.com) and the Observer/Eccentric (www.hometownlife.com) both fill this niche well.

For those ripping on Real Detroit Weekly -- have they ever claimed to be anything more than an entertainment rag? While the Metro Times is more newsy, I don't think Real Detroit does any sort of news whatsoever.

Stosh · #48 November 12th, 2009, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefishwrap

They don't focus on Detroit (as both are in the 'burbs), but C&G News (www.candgnews.com) and the Observer/Eccentric (www.hometownlife.com) both fill this niche well.

For those ripping on Real Detroit Weekly -- have they ever claimed to be anything more than an entertainment rag? While the Metro Times is more newsy, I don't think Real Detroit does any sort of news whatsoever.

I can't see how a bi weekly paper can be considered local news, maybe more like local history by the time you get it. C&G fills a niche, but only in relation to what amounts to an advertising cow. I WANT to hear about Detroit, as well as the burbs.

Real Detroit as news? Ha.
Metro Times? Not so much either.

I'm lookin forward to more options.

thefishwrap · #49 November 12th, 2009, 07:30 PM

Stosh: well both of those weekly chains provide local content free of national/international news, as you suggested earlier. If you live in the suburbs, you are not going to find information about what's happening in your neighborhood without those chains.

But you are right, the options for a Detroit+suburb paper is severely diminished. I guess that's what this new daily might try to be. I'm certainly intrigued on what they might produce.

Stosh · #50 November 12th, 2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefishwrap

Stosh: well both of those weekly chains provide local content free of national/international news, as you suggested earlier. If you live in the suburbs, you are not going to find information about what's happening in your neighborhood without those chains.

But you are right, the options for a Detroit+suburb paper is severely diminished. I guess that's what this new daily might try to be. I'm certainly intrigued on what they might produce.

I don't get the OE where I am, I do get the C&G though. About 3 pages of local "local" news. Not a peep about elsewhere. And really, people living in Detroit don't get much info either, outside of City Hall BS.

News you can use... A slogan of some news station here. That should be the whole philosophy of any newspaper. I suppose it's subjective, but it's not too much to ask for a little current events in the "hood"? Current crime blotter? Local events publicized on a timely basis? Publicized at all?