CBC-Windsor Digital Conversion

**rid0617** · August-21-11, 04:15 AM

The secret to digital is obstructions and flat terrain. I cut the cord 5 years ago because I was tired of paying $100 a month for reality TV, infomercials and reruns of programs I quit watching in the 1980s.

I am using an Antenna Direct DB-8 which is mounted 15 feet above my roof. I am receiving channels I never used to get before 90 miles away and we have some mountain's to contend with here.

The secret in selecting which antenna depends on if the desired station is transmitting on a VHF or UHF frequency. Example, the channel maps to channel 2 on your TV but actually transmits on channel 48. The antenna I have is weak on channels transmitting VHF but unbelievable on UHF.

I looked up CBC Windsor and they will map to channel 9 as they always have but have been allocated to transmit on channel 35 so a good UHF antenna will do the trick.

**JBMcB** · August-21-11, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Carey

JBMcB: Could you be more specific about your antenna? Name, etc. Would it have to be mounted on a chimney? Thanks.

Like rid0167, I'm using an Antennas Direct antenna, but the DB4 model with less gain, as I'm only about 15 miles away from the main cluster of broadcast antennas in Southfield.

I used http://www.antennaweb.org/ to find where the stations I wanted to pick up are, and the amount of gain my antenna needed to have to pick them up. It also shows you where to point your antenna to get the most channels.

I mounted the antenna to a 5' mast I bought at radio shack, to the chimney using a Weingard Z-strap mounting kit.

Make sure you get good quality quad-shield coaxial cable and connector ends. Also make sure you properly ground both the coax and the antenna mast to an external grounding rod. All the grounding gear [[6 gauge copper grounding wire, copper grounding rod, clamps) shouldn't cost more than $20 to $30.

If you don't need to get your antenna that high to clear nearby obstructions, you can put your antenna in your attic, and you won't need to ground it.

As far as antenna brands - ChannelMaster, Weingard and Antennas Direct are generally considered to be of high quality.

**yupislyr** · August-21-11, 10:29 PM

There's also an excellent Tv signal locator here: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

Or map version: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90

Also a good starter resource on all things tv antenna related: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html

**JasonMax** · August-21-11, 11:24 PM

I would love to cut the cable BUT I love the Tigers and ESPN. I hate FOX for sticking our team on cable only, the broadcast on the ticket is OK but [[ask my wife) I'm a fan and want to see it.

Other than that, I have a young one who is still high maintenance so its either Nick TV for him or one of the Discovery channels for me to pass the time. I do have the houses old antenna hooked up to the coax input so 2, 4 , 7 and the rest look AWESOME on the Bravia. There is even a channel 54 [[from Quebec) that comes in when the Moon is right. Been into HAM and scanning for a while so I have plenty of nifty antennas.

Now, I did try to get my Tigers fix by buying into MLB.tv but they black out the games if they are on FSN.......WTH is the point of that?

J

**rid0617** · August-22-11, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by JasonMax

I would love to cut the cable BUT I love the Tigers and ESPN. I hate FOX for sticking our team on cable only, the broadcast on the ticket is OK but [[ask my wife) I'm a fan and want to see it.

Other than that, I have a young one who is still high maintenance so its either Nick TV for him or one of the Discovery channels for me to pass the time. I do have the houses old antenna hooked up to the coax input so 2, 4 , 7 and the rest look AWESOME on the Bravia. There is even a channel 54 [[from Quebec) that comes in when the Moon is right. Been into HAM and scanning for a while so I have plenty of nifty antennas.

Now, I did try to get my Tigers fix by buying into MLB.tv but they black out the games if they are on FSN.......WTH is the point of that?

J

Noticed your into ham. You'll recognize this then KB4YKJ. Had this call since 1986

**JBMcB** · August-22-11, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by JasonMax

I would love to cut the cable BUT I love the Tigers and ESPN. I hate FOX for sticking our team on cable only, the broadcast on the ticket is OK but [[ask my wife) I'm a fan and want to see it.
Other than that, I have a young one who is still high maintenance so its either Nick TV for him or one of the Discovery channels for me to pass the time. Now, I did try to get my Tigers fix by buying into MLB.tv but they black out the games if they are on FSN.......WTH is the point of that?

It's the cable companies trying desperately to hang on to subscribers. There are a lot of subscribers who mostly only watch two or three channels. If those splinter off into internet available channels, CATV is going to loose a boatload of subscribers. Once you realize that for the $30/month you're paying for internet anyways, plus $10/month for MLB with every game available, there's not a lot of reason to fork over another $50 a month for 100 other channels you don't watch.

**milesdriven** · August-23-11, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by rid0617

I looked up CBC Windsor and they will map to channel 9 as they always have but have been allocated to transmit on channel 35 so a good UHF antenna will do the trick.

They were allocated to transmit on channel 35, but instead of broadcasting simultaneously in analog on channel 9 and digital on channel 35 they will flash cut to digital on channel 9 at the end of the month so a good VHF antenna will be necessary, as it is for WJBK right now.

**Brock7** · August-28-11, 08:56 AM

Since Friday night my converter box has been displaying either "no program" or "no signal" when tuned to CH32. Up until then I was receiving a good picture from the day after the switch-over. Is anyone else experiencing this? If not, can anyone confirm receiving their broadcast.

**Gannon** · August-28-11, 11:33 AM

Brock,

I'll see what I can get with my reference system...the antenna is not yet on the highest point of the roof, but I may be able to see something significant.

Gimme a few, gotta get through with some garage cleaning duties first, LOL!

Cheers!

**Gannon** · August-28-11, 11:36 AM

One quick tip, do another tuner memory scan from within your setup menu...the PSIP information may have changed and confused your tuner. Yeah, I know it takes some time, and I absolutely hate that about this new technology, but it may solve your problem.

**Brock7** · August-28-11, 02:26 PM

Thanks Gannon. It seems that your right that it's something peculiar to that particular model, the CM-7000. I tried an update scan first, which didn't add any channels. A re-scan of all channels didn't make any difference to what I'm seeing on CH32 - "no program" with a 78% signal strength. It did add CH08.1 though,also without any video or audio. I tried my other two converter models[[Apex DT-502 and Tivax STB-T8) and they both have video and audio on CH32.

**Gannon** · August-28-11, 02:38 PM

What brand is the troublesome one?!

There is one marketed by Channel Master that seems to be the best...and I just got another old Zenith 520 DirecTV tuner, which is obsolete to the satellite users but contains a kick-ass terrestrial tuner that outputs any of the HD formats except the HDMI with HDCP that I have come to just hate...along with standard baseband video and S-video, so I can feed an older tv at the same time as a new one...or an old computer monitor. Good for us, since my partner has an old Sony CRT that she isn't ready to replace yet.

Gauging her peers has led me to investigate finally leaving the industry...if the actions of a very greedy Hellywood have caused thinking professionals to re-evaluate their relative addiction to television, and go nearly cold turkey off it instead of investing many thousands of dollars for new gear, along with the increased programming fees for the common cable or satellite services...then I believe there may be no hope for the home entertainment electronics industry.

I'll spend my time making sure the old technology works as well as it can...CRT is still a much more enjoyable picture...and I've been given enough old projectors to open a sports bar. LOL. So many of my clients threw theirs out when the new technology got palatable to them, despite my stern warnings. When they gripe about the cost of replacement bulbs, I always remind them that I warned them at the time of purchase. The ones that have to toss their flatscreens due to catastrophic failure are even more pissed.

Their CRT televisions usually lasted decades...

Ugh...

**Brock7** · August-28-11, 02:50 PM

The CM-7000 is the Channel Master Digital to Analog converter box. I've read that it pulls in a weak signal better than any of the other converters, but the Apex seems slightly better at that.

**Gannon** · August-28-11, 03:09 PM

Isn't that funny. I thought that model number sounded familiar. One of the few that has an S-video output, which will yield a significantly better picture than baseband video...those common yellow RCA-type connections blend the black-and-white and color-offsets, where the S-video keeps them apart.

I'll check to see if there are any firmware updates on it, then. CM is a responsible company which has been around a good long time.

Cheers!

**Gannon** · August-28-11, 03:18 PM

That is the only one on-line that doesn't have any FAQs or support, they say to call them at [[877) 746-7261. Their on-line revews aren't promising...I may have to update what I said about them being responsible. Ugh.

I'm beginning to really hate my industry...it used to be so fun.

**Brock7** · August-29-11, 08:43 AM

I've emailed TVO about the problem.

In the meantime someone posted at avsforum that the HDtuner on their older TV is no longer displaying the CH32 broadcast either. According to other posts they've been working on the PSIP and updated it on Friday - when it became a problem for the CM-7000. If I understand correctly the PSIP is still not right - the video is, or is identified as Digicipher II which is wrong for ATSC frequencies.

**Brock7** · August-29-11, 10:22 AM

I received a response from TVO Customer Relations:

Thank you for contacting TVO. What you are describing is very likely related to a PSIP problem that we have identified with our Windsor transmitter since the digital conversion. We are going to be testing some new equipment today and likely installing it tomorrow. If you find that your reception problems persist beyond tomorrow, and you have tried rescanning at that time, please feel free to write back to asktvo@tvo.org and we will investigate your situation further. Your patience in the meantime is much appreciated.

**elrick** · August-30-11, 03:48 PM

i'm a huge fan of OTA, but i have trouble getting Channel 7's signals -- and can't get Ch. 38 or Ch. 20 -- on Detroit's east side. in fact, I often have to watch Ch. 13 from Toldeo for ABC programming [[not that there's much to see there -- or on any of the major networks). Any suggestions on how to better pull in the local digital transmissions? I have a big roof antenna installed a few years ago specifically to take advantage of the digital changeover ...

**CLAUDE G** · August-31-11, 12:32 AM

Dish Network sells the DTV Pal Plus and those where considered the best converters on the market.

I can still order them if anyone is instested, send me a PM

**Magnatomicflux** · August-31-11, 01:11 AM

Well, I'm not a very big fan that my "A" news is now CTV. Anyone know what happened?

Jim sits at a desk now, and I don't like it. I don't think he does either lol. I think he liked standing and talking to the people, holding the news in his hand. Feels like it lost its "flare"....if that's the right word.
Meh...I dunno. Just doesn't feel right.

I thought the picture was supposed to be better. I wasn't that great, certainly not the crystal clear I expected. Does it matter if its over cable?

**rid0617** · August-31-11, 01:23 AM

Yep. Cable compresses the signal so they can get more channels in the same bandwidth. Your true HD will come OTA.

**Brock7** · September-01-11, 07:06 AM

CBET switched over at 1am. Looks like they they got their signal configured right from the start - 720p Dolby 5.1.

My Channel Master converter is still seeing "no program" on 32. It has however added 8[[WUDT-LD) again, this time with programing, and 18.1 through 18.4[[WDWO-CD) all with a black screen.

**stromberg2** · September-01-11, 02:11 PM

Channel 9 come in digital for me as of today. YAY!! Hockey night in Canada!

Stromberg2

**JBMcB** · September-01-11, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by rid0617

Yep. Cable compresses the signal so they can get more channels in the same bandwidth. Your true HD will come OTA.

Also depends on the channel, and show. OTA channels can vary their compression rates as well, for various [[mostly lazy) reasons.

PBS/WTVS seems to be the most consistently high quality but it's still pretty variable. I've seen HD shows on WTVS that look absolutely stunning. No artifacts, deep, saturated colors, crisp edges. I've also seen shows on WTVS that look like they were pulled off a low bitrate Youtube channel.

TV stations are still figuring out end-to-end digital transmission - I think it will get better over time.

**BVos** · September-01-11, 07:20 PM

I live in GPP. I was getting Ch 9 in OK when it was analog OTA. Now I don't get it at all. My tuner says it doesn't even see a signal for Ch 9. Any tips on how to improve my reception? I use an indoor antenna and get great reception on 2-7, 56 & 62 [[don't get any other ones, but who cares about those ch. anyways).