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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto View Post
    It's not just a matter of funding when it comes to education--our system requires an entire attitude adjustment. We can't teach to a multiple-choice test and then expect our students to learn critical thinking and problem-solving skills. We can't keep easing math and science requirements because those subjects "are too hard", and then wonder why we keep importing engineers from India and Southeast Asia.
    So we should just tighten standards and flunk the ones who can't do it? There are kids who can't multiply 5 x 3 without a calculator. I've taken a calculator from a first grader.

  2. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxx View Post
    So we should just tighten standards and flunk the ones who can't do it? There are kids who can't multiply 5 x 3 without a calculator. I've taken a calculator from a first grader.
    Maybe not so drastic, but there's something to be said for the old way many of us use to learn, drill, drill drill learning times tables, using flash cards. Those things were drilled into us until it was in our heads. I too get upset when I see children who can't do any math without a calculator. GP is right the system needs an entire attitude adjustment. I think the educational gimmicks need to stop and we should go to the tried and true ways of learning.

  3. #28

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    If we look back at Bloom's taxonomy of learning levels, "Remembering" or "memorization" is at the very bottom. It does, however, serve as the foundation for the higher levels of learning. That's where our educational system is, if anywhere--at the bottom. Certainly nowhere above. We're teaching our kids trivia, then we wonder why they become incompetent adults. Should we be surprised???

    I had one math class before college where we were allowed to use calculators, and that was trigonometry. We were allowed to use them in college calculus, but it wouldn't have done you any good, because the homework and the exams were all theoretical and analytical. Well, and it's kind of assumed that if you're taking calculus, you don't need that calculator to figure out [[5 x 3).

    I'd like to see an emphasis on growing children upward through the Bloom's taxonomy, instead of hammering them with a barrage of multiple-guess trivia questions that, at the end of the day, don't really mean or demonstrate a whole lot other than that the student was able to memorize a whole bunch of bullshit.

    Last edited by ghettopalmetto; December-08-10 at 03:43 PM.

  4. #29

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    Many thanks Jimaz

    Been keeping up with the Hartmann book on a weekly basis

    Brilliant writing by Thom

  5. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by firstandten View Post
    Many thanks Jimaz

    Been keeping up with the Hartmann book on a weekly basis

    Brilliant writing by Thom
    You're most welcome, firstandten. Of course all credit goes to Thom Hartmann. He's actually giving this book away. That shows he's not just in it for himself. He really cares about these issues. It's always refreshing to find intelligence and common sense in the same book.

    One of my pet peeves about education is the disconnect between universities and the workplace. There are too many cases where useful ideas from school never get applied in industry where they should. It seems as though those who call the shots in industry often aren't even aware of better ways to operate.

    Another scary problem is the skyrocketing cost of education to students. I write this as the London student riots are being covered on CNN. Imagine the future societal loss due to students being denied free access to education today.

  6. #31

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    Can I simply purchase this book in hardcover?

    I have trouble reading that much via computer screen.


    Edit:
    Just bought it. Thanks.
    Last edited by TKshreve; December-09-10 at 10:12 PM. Reason: google

  7. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by TKshreve View Post
    Can I simply purchase this book in hardcover?

    I have trouble reading that much via computer screen.


    Edit:
    Just bought it. Thanks.
    So I take it your not in the market for an Ipad or Kindle

  8. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto View Post
    If we look back at Bloom's taxonomy of learning levels, "Remembering" or "memorization" is at the very bottom. It does, however, serve as the foundation for the higher levels of learning. That's where our educational system is, if anywhere--at the bottom. Certainly nowhere above. We're teaching our kids trivia, then we wonder why they become incompetent adults. Should we be surprised???
    What is the trivia you are referring to? History before grad school is mostly learning facts. The same goes for the sciences and math. Language Arts is the main course where students have to analyze and synthesize ideas. However, middle school and high school language arts teachers have the same number of students as the other teachers whose primary responsibility is teaching facts and not how to write. It takes time to read essays and papers and then correct them.

  9. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxx View Post
    What is the trivia you are referring to? History before grad school is mostly learning facts. The same goes for the sciences and math. Language Arts is the main course where students have to analyze and synthesize ideas. However, middle school and high school language arts teachers have the same number of students as the other teachers whose primary responsibility is teaching facts and not how to write. It takes time to read essays and papers and then correct them.
    Your first statement is exactly what SHOULDN'T be done. History, science and math should be taught in a way that emphasizes critical thinking. Various hypotheses should be put forth for kids to compare and contrast. Who won the war of 1812? It's very clear that we did not gain all of our objectives, yet it is almost always taught that we kicked brit butt when we almost got destroyed in the process. Some other countries teach that the Brits actually won the war. Ultimately, given the full picture, many kids could figure out that the outcome was essentially a stalemate.
    [[Quick! what is the relationship between American plantation slavery and the English Civil War?)

  10. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by rb336 View Post
    Your first statement is exactly what SHOULDN'T be done. History, science and math should be taught in a way that emphasizes critical thinking. Various hypotheses should be put forth for kids to compare and contrast. Who won the war of 1812? It's very clear that we did not gain all of our objectives, yet it is almost always taught that we kicked brit butt when we almost got destroyed in the process. Some other countries teach that the Brits actually won the war. Ultimately, given the full picture, many kids could figure out that the outcome was essentially a stalemate.
    [[Quick! what is the relationship between American plantation slavery and the English Civil War?)
    You can't analyze anything until you have some facts, in fact, a lot of facts. I think it's ridiculous that most U.S. history isn't taught until a single year in high school. I would like someone to tell me that this is no longer true and that middle school kids get a hefty amount of information on actual historical occurrences rather than the social history I have noticed.
    I was a good student of history in school. Unfortunately, I was sent to Catholic schools until grade seven so I was mostly taught about the Crusades and the age of conquest in the New World, over and over again.

    And the issue now is the widespread student plagiarism of internet materials. You can require kids to compare and contrast two historical figures or events, but you may just end up with a hodge podge of plagiarised paragraphs. That's why there are AP classes for the motivated students. Everyone else who has reading or motivational issues just gets the basics.

  11. #36

  12. #37

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    http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/47/2/41528678.pdf
    Wow, we're right up there with Mexico and Turkey when it comes to inequality of income distribution.
    And spending on social programs is the equivalent of 9% of household incomes whereas it's 22% in OECD nations. And still someone keeps saying the U.S. is a "christian" nation.

  13. #38

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    Jimaz,

    Jimaz,
    I seldom reply on this sight because I am out of my depth. However, your post stimulated my juices to respond. Three weeks ago, I began reading it. I began to smile.
    Here’s the story. Sixty years ago my peers and I would argue, politics. Most of them would say that we have the best political government in the entire world. Yes, there are flaws and yes, it could be improved, but yes, it was the best.
    My answer was, Yes, a little pile of crap is better than a big pile of crap, but neither is acceptable. I have held to that attitude ever since.
    About a week ago or so I was ordering a new World Almanac from Amazon and I was a couple of dollars short for “free shipping.” [[One of my many quirks is to NOT pay for shipping and handling.) Then the inspiration hit me to buy Thom Hartmann’s book, “Rebooting the American Dream.” It has been the best investment I have ever made.
    I read it through last night. I will have to read it at least two more times, not too understand it, I do that very well, but to digest and retain all of his philosophies.
    Page 79 stands out,,, no, it screams: “In other words, a well-educated citizenry can “choose with discretion “ the elected representatives who are the holders of our government that protects our rights, AND HOLD THOSE POLITICIANS ACCOUNTABLE “with diligence, with candor and judgment.”
    And equally important, at the bottom of the page: “Combine that with breaking up the media monopolies in this country,,,
    So what do we need? Yes. An educated electorate!
    The following addendum is whimsical:
    From Hartmann: Chaptor 10. Page 169. “Wal-Mart is Not a Person.”
    From the newly released, “World Almanac, 2011:” Page 57,,,
    The ten wealthiest Americans [[read billionaires) include:
    Christy Walton, Jim C. Walton, Alice Walton, S. Robson, Walton
    Do you think there might be a TYPO IN THERE,,, SOME PLACE?
    To get even more silly, Hartmann, Page 101: on the subject of lobbyists:
    His quote, “and 138 of them are former members of Congress.”
    When will we ever learn,,,,,,,,

  14. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by tponetom View Post
    Jimaz,

    Jimaz,
    I seldom reply on this sight because I am out of my depth. However, your post stimulated my juices to respond. Three weeks ago, I began reading it. I began to smile.
    Here’s the story. Sixty years ago my peers and I would argue, politics. Most of them would say that we have the best political government in the entire world. Yes, there are flaws and yes, it could be improved, but yes, it was the best.
    My answer was, Yes, a little pile of crap is better than a big pile of crap, but neither is acceptable. I have held to that attitude ever since.
    About a week ago or so I was ordering a new World Almanac from Amazon and I was a couple of dollars short for “free shipping.” [[One of my many quirks is to NOT pay for shipping and handling.) Then the inspiration hit me to buy Thom Hartmann’s book, “Rebooting the American Dream.” It has been the best investment I have ever made.
    I read it through last night. I will have to read it at least two more times, not too understand it, I do that very well, but to digest and retain all of his philosophies.
    Page 79 stands out,,, no, it screams: “In other words, a well-educated citizenry can “choose with discretion “ the elected representatives who are the holders of our government that protects our rights, AND HOLD THOSE POLITICIANS ACCOUNTABLE “with diligence, with candor and judgment.”
    And equally important, at the bottom of the page: “Combine that with breaking up the media monopolies in this country,,,
    So what do we need? Yes. An educated electorate!
    The following addendum is whimsical:
    From Hartmann: Chaptor 10. Page 169. “Wal-Mart is Not a Person.”
    From the newly released, “World Almanac, 2011:” Page 57,,,
    The ten wealthiest Americans [[read billionaires) include:
    Christy Walton, Jim C. Walton, Alice Walton, S. Robson, Walton
    Do you think there might be a TYPO IN THERE,,, SOME PLACE?
    To get even more silly, Hartmann, Page 101: on the subject of lobbyists:
    His quote, “and 138 of them are former members of Congress.”
    When will we ever learn,,,,,,,,
    tponetom,

    I am honored and humbled that you would visit and appreciate this thread. Of course, all credit goes to the author of "Rebooting the American Dream," Thom Hartmann [[Wiki). I think he would rather not be revered. I revere him nonetheless. I can imagine him saying to instead save your reverence for a wise path out of our common troubles.

    tponetom, the guidance of your generation is appreciated too. I read of a study recently that concluded that the elderly truly are wiser, especially in social matters. Your writings remind me of Studs Terkel's. Keep it up.

    My greatest fear is that stories from your generation of triumphs over injustice might be quietly suppressed by those in power today who would wish to rekindle those forgotten injustices. "Media monopolies in this country" could accomplish that more easily if not for the internet—and the recollections from those like you.

    Even if we did have the best political government in the entire world, for Pete's sake why stop there?!

    Thank you so much for responding, tponetom!

  15. #40

    Default Chapter 6: Make Members of Congress Wear NASCAR Patches


  16. #41

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    Chapter 6 is a real wake up call. There is so much money in the political system, and the corporations have their arms around all of it. I wonder if the political system will ever work for the common man again, or will we have to be satified with trickle down everything.

    One encouraging thing is the suggestion that people should bank at a community bank or credit union, and leave the big corporate banks alone.

  17. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimaz View Post
    from the article:
    "... November 2005, the Bush Administration's effort to create a "Free Trade Area of the Americas" collapsed at the summit in Mar del Plata, Argentina. It wasn't U.S. Democratic politicians or U.S. trade unions that finally created Waterloo for the Bush Administration's "free trade" jihad. It was opposition to this agenda in Latin America. This story has never really been told in the U.S. media, because it's inconvenient for the "free trade" ideology. But Oliver Stone's recent documentary, South of the Border, tells this story. The film is now available on DVD, and the DVD includes portions of an interview with Brazil's outgoing President Lula that weren't in the movie as shown in theaters..."

  18. #43

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    "...According to a Kaiser Family Foundation report, 'between 1999 and 2009, health insurance premiums rose 131 percent, a much faster rate of increase than general inflation [[28 percent) or workers’ earnings [[38 percent).' The report also had this shocking statistic about the amount spent by employers on group health insurance policies: 'The amount grew over twenty-fold from $25 billion in 1960 to $545 billion in 2008.'
    When premiums skyrocket, the usual response from the insurance companies is that they are simply passing along the increase in health-care costs to the consumers. And the corporate media never ask whether the profits of these insurance companies are also suffering. In reality they are making out like bandits, as a 2009 report from Health Care for America Now shows:2 Profits at 10 of the country’s largest publicly traded health insurance companies in 2007 rose 428 percent from 2000 to 2007, from $2.4 billion to $12.9 billion, according to U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission filings. In 2007 alone the chief executive officers at these companies collected combined total compensation of $118.6 million - an average of $11.9 million each. That is 468 times more than the...average American worker made that year..."

    A solution:
    http://www.chc1.com/About/OurHistory.html

    http://forum.conntact.com/index2.php...ource&Itemid=0
    Last edited by maxx; December-26-10 at 02:33 PM.

  19. #44

  20. #45

  21. #46

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    Jimaz,

    Re: Chapter 8. Page 146.
    And, as Herbert Hoover [[1929 to 1933) correctly noted, “Old men declare war. But it’s the youth who must fight and die.” When the children of our president, vice-president, and members of Congress are all obliged to serve, the odds are infinitely higher that our leaders won’t speak so glibly about the acceptability of a “few casualties” on optional wars of choice like Iraq.

    Chapter 4. An Informed and Educated Electorate: Pages 79-80 speak volumes.
     
    Hoover’s philosophy has been bandied about for 80 years or so. Perhaps, a germinal seed will be sowed one day by an informed electorate.

  22. #47

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    Re: Democracy in the third world

    It's not just a question of democracy being a good thing or the U.S. presenting a good model of democracy. The society has to produce good candidates and there has to be enough police protection so that candidates don't get killed. An informed and educated electorate is essential too. Our model, which is not so great in that area, will not create a universal public school system in a nation where a large percentage of the people are still subsistence farmers.

  23. #48

  24. #49

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    11 ways to rebuild the American Dream:

    1. jobs
    2. jobs
    3. jobs
    4. jobs
    5. jobs
    6. jobs
    7. jobs
    8. jobs
    9. jobs
    10. jobs
    11. jobs jobs jobs jobs jobs jobs jobs jobs jobs jobs jobs

  25. #50

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    What sort of job? What level of pay? I'm sure there are plenty of corporate heads who would love for everyone to make minimum wage so they would have to hold two or three jobs to survive. They'd have no time to know what was going on.

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