2nd amendment goes nationwide!!!

[Patrick]

2. Armed rednecks are no substitute for a trained military.

This. This.

[MCP-001]

...It should be up to the local communities to decide on the extent of gun control. Again he is not saying to get rid of the second amendment. I don't see that as him wanting to take away your guns . As an Illinois legislator there is a reality that illegal guns in Chicago are out of control. So you go back to that to prove a point that he is against the second amendment and wants to take away your guns. As a candidate for president or since he's been president what has he said to lead you to believe that he wants to take away your guns...

His position on firearms is very, very clear.

In a survey that he submitted to Independent Voters of Illinois while running for Illinois Senate, these were the answers that were submitted from him regarding gun control [[question #35).

35. Do you support state legislation to:

a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

So far, I have not been able to locate any news links, audio or video clips of him personally refuting that position.

He had voted against legislation [[Senate Bill 2165 of 2004) in the Illinois Senate that would allow homeowners to defend themselves, even with an "illegal" firearm. To top things off, he even sided against legislators who were overriding Gov. Blagojevich's veto of that bill

He is against Concealed Carry.

[GOAT]

DS, good point.
I would also like to call out that there was the war of independence going on. Perhaps the unelected leaders decided that should Britain win or that of any other country the people should rise against the new gov't as they just did against the Brits.

One thing for sure is that all of these guns [[especially hand guns) haven't made the USA safer. That is a fact.

[ghettopalmetto]

DS, good point.
I would also like to call out that there was the war of independence going on. Perhaps the unelected leaders decided that should Britain win or that of any other country the people should rise against the new gov't as they just did against the Brits.

One thing for sure is that all of these guns [[especially hand guns) haven't made the USA safer. That is a fact.

If you look at the historical context of 1791, when the Bill of Rights was written, the United States was a fragile democracy, cobbled together by compromise. The nation had existed until 1787 as a de jure confederation, and the whole idea of "united" states was more that the 13 states were stronger if they supported one another against Britain, as opposed to going it completely alone. Politically, the idea of the United States as a "nation" did not yet exist. Think Germany prior to Kaiser Wilhelm.

With that said, the United States of 1791 did not have much in the way of money. Thus, it didn't have much in the way of a military, either. Infrastructure was underdeveloped, and even along the post roads that did exist, it took days to travel across the country on horseback. There were no telephones or telegraphs or radios or internets. The Second Amendment was added as a safeguard so that the states might be able to defend themselves [[i.e. the "well-regulated militia" part) against foreign invaders [[e.g. the Britons).

And invade, they did, only 21 years later. If it weren't for the Big Pond in between, I'm sure it would have happened much sooner.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "It's all well and good if it's abstract, but when it's a personal matter SStashmoo goes ballistic"

Address this to a police officer or better yet, to a judge, next time you're in court.

Quote: "I know a couple of psychopaths that would love to have a handgun, perhaps I can get some in their hands and send them over to your house so YOU can deal with them?"

See what happens.

[Searay215]

God Bless America....apple pie, Cheverolet and Guns....thats what I'm talking about!! Go Chicago....

[GOAT]

GhettoPalmetto,
If you are suggesting that Britain invaded the USA first to start the 1812 war then I would argue that fact. In fact Canada and England played for the most part a defensive role until Britain could free up some troops that were fighting Napolean. You guys invaded first. : )

[Papasito]

Armed rednecks are no substitute for a trained military.

There are a lot of tombstones over folks who spent 8 weeks doing jumping jacks and running with backpacks, then sent to VietNam, Korea, or the Middle East and labeled as "trained military" as they quake in thier boots, green to combat, waiting to be shot first before they are allowed to fire back.

I'm not belittling the military, trust me. All I am saying is that if you look at armies around the world, the only thing that separates the soldier from a civilian fighter is the uniform.

The last thing an invading army would want is a half million crazy rednecks with guns acting as a guerilla force...

[Stosh]

Quote: "It's all well and good if it's abstract, but when it's a personal matter SStashmoo goes ballistic"

Address this to a police officer or better yet, to a judge, next time you're in court.

You are seriously fucked up. Get some help. Maybe pray for some?

Quote: "I know a couple of psychopaths that would love to have a handgun, perhaps I can get some in their hands and send them over to your house so YOU can deal with them?"

See what happens.

Ah, now the REAL sstashass comes out. Violence IS your forte, it seems.
Whatever happened to the "Christian" attitude? Out the window?

Besides, fool, it was THEORETICAL.

Oh maybe I should explain that word to you? But I won't. Look it up yourself.

[Papasito]

I'm not. I think people should be free to walk in and purchase any time they want.

anyone with a criminal record should not be able to buy a gun. sorry, we disagree on that one.

If you need to carry a gun everywhere to not be afraid, just fucking lock yourself in a concrete bunker already.

I do not have a concealed weapons permit, and I really don't want one. I have one gun. It has a trigger lock on it and is in a safe place. I would only use it if someone broke into my home and I had to defend myself.

[GOAT]

There are a lot of tombstones over folks who spent 8 weeks doing jumping jacks and running with backpacks, then sent to VietNam, Korea, or the Middle East and labeled as "trained military" as they quake in thier boots, green to combat, waiting to be shot first before they are allowed to fire back.

I'm not belittling the military, trust me. All I am saying is that if you look at armies around the world, the only thing that separates the soldier from a civilian fighter is the uniform.

The last thing an invading army would want is a half million crazy rednecks with guns acting as a guerilla force...

Abso-fucking-lutely no clue! And yes you are belittling the military.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "You are seriously fucked up.

So?

[Stosh]

Quote: "You are seriously fucked up.

So?

I can't answer that. You win.
So long, asshole.

[ghettopalmetto]

There are a lot of tombstones over folks who spent 8 weeks doing jumping jacks and running with backpacks, then sent to VietNam, Korea, or the Middle East and labeled as "trained military" as they quake in thier boots, green to combat, waiting to be shot first before they are allowed to fire back.

I'm not belittling the military, trust me. All I am saying is that if you look at armies around the world, the only thing that separates the soldier from a civilian fighter is the uniform.

The last thing an invading army would want is a half million crazy rednecks with guns acting as a guerilla force...

Uh, yeah. Because shooting at beer cans is better preparation for combat than the training our military provides. Those half million crazy rednecks would be on the ground quicker than the opening scene of Red Dawn.

Come back to reality any time you feel like it.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "I can't answer that. You win.
So long, asshole."

Just for fun, are you incapable of discussion without insulting and name calling? Just curious. For the record, I harbor no animosity towards you, I don't take you seriously..

[firstandten]

His position on firearms is very, very clear.

In a survey that he submitted to Independent Voters of Illinois while running for Illinois Senate, these were the answers that were submitted from him regarding gun control [[question #35).

35. Do you support state legislation to:

a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

So far, I have not been able to locate any news links, audio or video clips of him personally refuting that position.

He had voted against legislation [[Senate Bill 2165 of 2004) in the Illinois Senate that would allow homeowners to defend themselves, even with an "illegal" firearm. To top things off, he even sided against legislators who were overriding Gov. Blagojevich's veto of that bill

He is against Concealed Carry.

Maybe not so clear says fact check.org



Again we are talking about his positions as a presidental candidate and as president. The positions he took as an Illinois state senator are based on a different set of circumstances.



Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:

• Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
• Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
• Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.

Common sense rules to me!

Doesn't mean he's against the 2nd amendment
You are treating this as a all or nothing proposition

Per Fact check:

A National Rifle Association advertising campaign distorts Obama's position on gun control beyond recognition.

The NRA is circulating printed material and running TV ads making unsubstantiated claims that Obama plans to ban use of firearms for home defense, ban possession and manufacture of handguns, close 90 percent of gun shops and ban hunting ammunition.

Much of what the NRA passes off as Obama's "10 Point Plan to 'Change' the Second Amendment" is actually contrary to what he has said throughout his campaign: that he "respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms" and "will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns."

The NRA, however, simply dismisses Obama's stated position as "rhetoric" and substitutes its own interpretation of his record as a secret "plan." Said an NRA spokesman: "We believe our facts."

Perhaps so, but believing something doesn't make it so. And we find the NRA has cherry-picked, twisted and misrepresented Obama's record to come up with a bogus "plan."

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...ets_obama.html

[rb336]

Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.

I like my semi-automatic handguns. heck, I could probably pop off 12 rounds as quickly with my S&W 620 and a speed loader I would not want them banned, nor do I see a reason for banning them. I'm all for background checks, waiting periods [[including at gun and knife shows) and mandatory training. Unlike the NRA, I do not want terrorists OR domestic nutjobs stockpiling weapons. I do not want someone who doesn't know how to properly use and maintain a firearm anywhere near me with a gun. This is common-sense gun control. So is forcing the arms manufacturers to account for every gun they make so they don't fall in to the black market

[firstandten]

I like my semi-automatic handguns. heck, I could probably pop off 12 rounds as quickly with my S&W 620 and a speed loader I would not want them banned, nor do I see a reason for banning them.

If you don't ban semi-automatic weapons it creates too much of a level playing field between the bad guys, [[drug cartels, other organized criminals etc) and law enforcement

[Papasito]

shooting at beer cans is better preparation for combat than the training our military provides. Come back to reality any time you feel like it.

The taliban is not a military unit, it is a collection of civilian radicals.
They seem to be holding their own against us, don't they?

A bunch of rag-tag Colonists were not trained soldiers, yet they ousted the Brits some 234 years ago.

Untrained Guerillas in Columbia are giving the trained soldiers of that country a solid challenge.

The drug trade and other illegal entities have tons of untranied fighters, and they have a lot of dead cops and DEA agents to show for their do-it-yourself fighting skills.

A little kid with a grenade behind his back doesn't get professionally trained to take out a few GI's.

Don't underestimate the civilian fighter.

Just look at Afghanistan. Even the USSR in its' greatest day couldn't take the civilian fighters of Afghanistan.

An armed civilian force is nothing to be brushed off.

[Sstashmoo]

I have two words pertaining to a civilian force:

John Rambo

GhettoPalmetto, typing without thinking again, many of these "rednecks" she's referring to, have military training. In her world, when the military is done with soldiers they dispose of them.

[ghettopalmetto]

I have two words pertaining to a civilian force:

John Rambo

GhettoPalmetto, typing without thinking again, many of these "rednecks" she's referring to, have military training. In her world, when the military is done with soldiers they dispose of them.

Yes, there are gun nuts who are ex-military. That doesn't mean you hand assault weapons to every illiterate just because you're afraid of life.

[Pam]

GhettoPalmetto, typing without thinking again, many of these "rednecks" she's referring to

She? I thought GP was a guy.

[rb336]

If you don't ban semi-automatic weapons it creates too much of a level playing field between the bad guys, [[drug cartels, other organized criminals etc) and law enforcement

the drug cartels et al can get weapons that are currently illegal anyway. semi-automatic handguns are not a big issue -- it's the fully automatic kind that cause problems.

[firstandten]

the drug cartels et al can get weapons that are currently illegal anyway. semi-automatic handguns are not a big issue -- it's the fully automatic kind that cause problems.

Good point !

[ghettopalmetto]

the drug cartels et al can get weapons that are currently illegal anyway. semi-automatic handguns are not a big issue -- it's the fully automatic kind that cause problems.

I'm not worried about drug cartels so much, as I am some Bubba shooting up a restaurant or bar because someone looked at him funny or his steak was undercooked.