Religious conversion and marriage

[maxx]

And the tale grew taller and more distorted on down the line
During the middle ages, in parts of Europe human beings were murdered for denying the Christian faith, one of many religions that has the virgin birth motif......the tale developed variations depending on the culture? Trade routes carried tales, as well as raw materials...

Anyways I think the wishes of couples who want NO religion,religous terminology or religious figure in their wedding ceremony should be respected.

I think everyone should be required to have a civil marriage ceremony. A religious one would be optional. That would stop the religionists from thinking they have the right to define what a marriage is.

[Stosh]

Quote: "Pope" originates from the Latin "Papa", meaning "Father"

The Bible is pretty clear who the "Father" is. "In my Fathers house are many mansions" All through it.. It even warns about referring to any man on earth as "Father". He said call no man your father in Matthew 23:9

Quote: ""universally accepted,"

Not by me

So I guess that you called your father what? By his real name?

[Stosh]

Jesus also said to give everything you own to the poor and that if you called someone a fool you would be burned.
Matt.19[21] Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.


Mark.10 [21] Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Luke 6 [29] And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
[30] Give to every man that asketh of thee;

Three references to this. Evidently it was very important to someone back then.

Matt 5 [22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Same thing with the whole health care proposition. As I posted in another thread.

[Sstashmoo]

What a bunch of stupid posts...

[Detroitej72]

I think everyone should be required to have a civil marriage ceremony. A religious one would be optional. That would stop the religionists from thinking they have the right to define what a marriage is.

I think people who are not of the faith should stop trying to force their veiws onto those of faith.

[Sstashmoo]

Dj, Isn't that the truth? These folks pretend to be the oppressed, and they are the ones pointing fingers and making accusations. Quite frankly I could care less what other people do, they could marry a fire hydrant for all I care, and call that bond whatever they want. They always play the victim. One asks; respect our decision to have a secular marriage, no problem, respect my decision to believe in God, that's all I ask in return.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "So I guess that you called your father what? By his real name?"

One of the keys to understanding scripture is to realize that often times they are speaking in terms of spirit. In this context, it means "Father" of ones spirit. Or "Heavenly Father".

[ghettopalmetto]

One asks; respect our decision to have a secular marriage, no problem, respect my decision to believe in God, that's all I ask in return.

I respect whatever faith someone wants to believe. But you complain how screwed up Catholicism is, while ignoring that your faith--whatever it is--is derived from Catholicism. You don't see me sitting here lambasting other faiths, regardless of how screwed up I may think they are.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "your faith--whatever it is--is derived from Catholicism."

Total nonsense. I, like you, respect your religion. I may not agree with it, but I'll not condemn it either. If it sounds that way... But your claim that Christianity was created from Catholicism is wrong to the tenth power.

[ghettopalmetto]

Quote: "your faith--whatever it is--is derived from Catholicism."

Total nonsense. I, like you, respect your religion. I may not agree with it, but I'll not condemn it either. If it sounds that way... But your claim that Christianity was created from Catholicism is wrong to the tenth power.

If that's what I said [[It isn't.), then I am wrong. Because what I actually said was "Catholicism IS Christianity". All other so-called Christian faiths are derived from Catholicism. Does the Protestant Fucking Reformation ring a bell in your dense skull?

And yes, you have argued that the Catholic Church didn't officially exist because the term "Catholic" wasn't used until the Middle Ages. That doesn't change the existence of the institution itself, which dates to A.D. 30--the date the Vatican cites as the first year of the Papacy of St. Peter. In fact, until Henry VIII decided to create his own church to fulfill his own selfish agenda, the Christian Church [[as it was known to that point) had over 220 different popes. I suppose none of those really existed, though, did they?

Read a damned history book for once, instead of spewing your unsubstantiated opinionated bullshit. If you had ANY respect for ANY religion, you'd take the time to actually learn something about it and its history, instead of relying on the crap you fabricate in your head.

[ghettopalmetto]

I think everyone should be required to have a civil marriage ceremony. A religious one would be optional. That would stop the religionists from thinking they have the right to define what a marriage is.

Welcome to the 21st Century, maxx, where couples are required by law to obtain a marriage license from the state in which they intend to wed, whether they partake in a religious wedding or not.

Hasn't exactly stopped the ever-judgmental Bible-thumpers from forcing their personal beliefs onto everyone else, has it?

[maxx]

I think people who are not of the faith should stop trying to force their veiws onto those of faith.

SO you're against marriage?

[maxx]

Welcome to the 21st Century, maxx, where couples are required by law to obtain a marriage license from the state in which they intend to wed, whether they partake in a religious wedding or not.

Hasn't exactly stopped the ever-judgmental Bible-thumpers from forcing their personal beliefs onto everyone else, has it?

That's because the religionists say that marriage is strictly a religious event. They look down on civil ceremonies. If everyone had to be married civilly, things might be different. There's no reason why a religion should be dictating to a secular government how to define marriage and denying some citizens a basic right because of their superstition.

[ghettopalmetto]

That's because the religionists say that marriage is strictly a religious event. They look down on civil ceremonies. If everyone had to be married civilly, things might be different. There's no reason why a religion should be dictating to a secular government how to define marriage and denying some citizens a basic right because of their superstition.

I'm not sure I'd choose the same wording you did, but I agree. If two people want to get married in a secular civil ceremony, let 'em knock themselves out. If I'm not one of the parties, I don't have to live with the consequences, so what do I care?

On the other hand, I do distinguish between civil marriage and the Sacrament of Matrimony as celebrated in my faith. I do think religions should be able to define marriage on their own terms, but that's far different than lobbying to codify their religious beliefs into law.

I'm kinda curious to know how the various Defense of Marriage Acts have worked out. Anyone know if divorce rates have decreased in Ohio the past five years?

[maxx]

This site has a 2010 copyright.
http://www.state-divorce-records.com...vorce-records/
"The divorce rate in Ohio has been on a worsening trend for decades. It's at 8 per 1000 of total population. Exacerbating the situation is marriage rate which dwindles in the opposite direction, estimated at 4 per 1000 people. With a large population of 11 million [[7th highest state), there're piles of existent Ohio Divorce Records but they are not easy to locate.
In Ohio, divorce records are basically decentralized and filed at county level. The are maintained at their respective County Clerk of Court's offices. A list of contact pages of all its county offices is posted by the Ohio Department of Health which is situated in Columbus."


IOW, we can't say for sure.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "All other so-called Christian faiths are derived from Catholicism."

Derived from created? who cares. You say this, then you say you aren't saying that. Seriously, you are like debating a stump. If it isn't in the Bible, not the Word of God, I'm not believing it. I don't care how many history books you want to drag out, if it isn't in the Bible, it's meaningless.

[ghettopalmetto]

I don't care how many history books you want to drag out, if it isn't in the Bible, it's meaningless.

Atta boy! Let 2000 years of advancement in thought and science rot in hell. Those desert nomads were just so gosh darn smart, we don't dare question anything they wrote. Let that Book do all your thinking for you. Way to be a "good Christian" and respect the brain that God gave you.

[Sstashmoo]

Oh brother... I was talking about your claim Catholicism before Christianity. Did anything in that post from wiki answers resonate with you at all? Jesus not propogating division in his believers ? Anything?

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "That's because the religionists say that marriage is strictly a religious event."

It really is. Otherwise, why bother? If you're secularist, why not just cohabitate? Why enter into any sort of official union? Other than greed, selfishness and insecurity what is one good reason for two people that don't believe in God to be "Married"?

[terryh]

Quote: "That's because the religionists say that marriage is strictly a religious event."

It really is. Otherwise, why bother? If you're secularist, why not just cohabitate? Why enter into any sort of official union? Other than greed, selfishness and insecurity what is one good reason for two people that don't believe in God to be "Married"?

A union can be civil.....there can be a strong bond emotionally without a supernatural belief or religious figure involved in the marriage ceremony...if the couple clicks emotionally and sexually why is it necessary to have a religious figure involved.. just sayin Sstashmoo...

[Stosh]

Oh brother... I was talking about your claim Catholicism before Christianity. Did anything in that post from wiki answers resonate with you at all? Jesus not propogating division in his believers ? Anything?

Do you not understand ANYTHING? Christianity WAS Catholicism from the earliest days after Christ. Your brand of "Christianity" came long after the church was founded. Lutheranism was the formation of the "other" denominations. You'd think that you would understand the time line of this a little better.

[Sstashmoo]

My brand of Christianity is based on the Word of God, how can anything supersede that? When Jesus spoke to men, he spoke to them as individuals, and stressed to them a personal relationship with our heavenly Father. A relationship free of man's influence or control. He didn't want the faith of his followers placed in the hands of men. It's amazing so many cannot grasp that. Too wound up in "you must do this" and "you must belong to this group" and "you most follow these rituals and customs" "You must act this way" It's all Pagan and phony. And quite frankly a lie straight from down under [[not Australia) meant to confuse, discourage and lead astray.

[checkraisej]

Other than greed, selfishness and insecurity what is one good reason for two people that don't believe in God to be "Married"?

Wow, just wow. The ignorance of this statement is shocking. How about over 1000 benefits? The sheer selfishness of trying to commandeer the term "marriage" for those only of faith is sickening. Reasons why you might want to get married, regardless of theological leanings include:

• Filing joint income tax returns with the IRS and state taxing authorities.
• Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.

• Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate.
• Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.
• Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts.
• Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse -- that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse's behalf.
• Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.
• Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.
• Receiving public assistance benefits.
• Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.
• Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.
• Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.
• Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse's close relatives dies.
• Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.
• Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.
• Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.
• Making burial or other final arrangements.
• Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.
• Applying for joint foster care rights.
• Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.
• Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce.
• Living in neighborhoods zoned for "families only."
• Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.
• Receiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance.
• Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.
• Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families.
• Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium [[loss of intimacy).
• Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation [[these laws are available in only a few states).
• Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can't force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.
• Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.
• Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.
• Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.

Here are several dozen reasons why people might want to get married. I know you just asked for one reason, but here's a sample of the hundreds if not thousands.

[Sstashmoo]

Like I said, other than Greed, selfishness and insecurity, show one good reason to be married. Following your [[someone's) logic above, people should have kids because.

They're fun to be around
Great at tax time
Free Housekeeping
Free Lawn care
Free Snow removal.
And if you teach them right, they can roof the house and remodel the basement- for free or a small pittance. Your choice.
Then when you get older, and they've received a good education and job, they can help take care of you.

All sorts of benefits. People wonder why marriages don't last. If we had kids like people get married, the state would take them away.

[[When you copy and paste, provide the source)

[Pam]

Quote: "That's because the religionists say that marriage is strictly a religious event."

It really is. Otherwise, why bother? If you're secularist, why not just cohabitate? Why enter into any sort of official union? Other than greed, selfishness and insecurity what is one good reason for two people that don't believe in God to be "Married"?

So that time you mentioned you shacked up with someone, you weren't religious yet?