Crazier and crazier-- Congresswoman and others shot

**barnesfoto** · January-08-11, 05:35 PM

It's time to "build a wall" around Arizona, and give it back to Mexico.

**Pam** · January-08-11, 05:53 PM

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ess=385x541594

Film clip of the Congresswoman in March of last year after her office in AZ was attacked.

Ravine · January-08-11, 05:58 PM

Hey, thanks, Pam, for the very timely delivery of that link.

**gibran** · January-08-11, 06:02 PM

I am so sad for all involved ... God Bless all of them.. But I feel the following need to understand their roles.

A. There is not enough mental health centers: we all bare responsibility for this tragic circumstance...those who bear most are those who cut budgets for these clinics...

B. Hate filled rhetoric filling the airways and enraging unstabl epeople without hope or who are angry ...listen to these shows as if they are getting their marching orders,,,old people and young whose lives are filled with angst... they hear [[left or right)..mostly rigt if you listen to Fox's we are number one... but it is a dnagerous mix & exploitation of people...

C. Sarah Palin, and the likes... placing targets on congressional democrats,, encouraging follows to water the tree o fliberty and people coming to rallies with automatic weapns

D. People turning guine discussion into hate I have to be right ...I have mine you get yours...

E. The climate the Gov of AZ has created in her state.

Chuck La Chez · January-08-11, 06:32 PM

The assassin is 22yrs. old. It's sad that someone so young with so much potential ahead of them could feel so hopeless to resort to such an act.

Hinckley was only 26. Both of them so young and facing an awful economy. I wonder if that's the connection.

**Patrick** · January-08-11, 06:36 PM

The Tuscon Tea Party "chapter" is already covering its back by releasing a statement. It is highly doubtful that they are saddened.

http://www.tucsonteaparty.org/

Chuck La Chez · January-08-11, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

The Tuscon Tea Party "chapter" is already covering its back by releasing a statement. It is highly doubtful that they are saddened.

The assassinations cast suspicion on them and it doesn't change the political values of the district. I can't see them being anything but sad. It's a mess for them.

**gibran** · January-08-11, 06:57 PM

I am sorry but how many of them applauded when Sarah [[Queen Tea)... drew up that map... I am trying not to generalize... I know all Tea Part members are not responsible... but how many didnt protest the target posters...

Chuck La Chez · January-08-11, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by gibran

I am sorry but how many of them applauded when Sarah [[Queen Tea)... drew up that map... I am trying not to generalize... I know all Tea Part members are not responsible... but how many didnt protest the target posters...

Why does it matter? When making big sales, as part of the fun, I do six-shooters with my hands like a kid. It's not my fault in any way, shape or form if one of my co-workers go shooting customers for real.

It sounds to me like the community is at fault. He's griping about mind control and no one picked up on this?

Ravine · January-08-11, 07:58 PM

Oldredfordette, I snapped at you, and I sincerely apologize.

I was, and am, disturbed by the incident, and while I stand behind the point I was trying to make, the fact is that I know, inside of myself, that I was snapping at you, and at a moment such as this one, people like me snapping at people like you just raises the tension level.

Ravine · January-08-11, 08:19 PM

Can't believe that the local sheriff just publicly stated his belief that there was someone, other than the shooter, on-site and involved with the incident.
He then proceeded to not comment on things which would have been safer material, on which to comment, than his somewhat stunning announcement.
Hey, we think someone else was involved!! But, sorry, for security reasons, we don't want to say anything about that!!

**canuck** · January-08-11, 08:41 PM

The guy is obviously a cracked nut.

You cant jump the gun and infer some kind of plot.

But I'm with Ravine on the Talking Heads issue; I think the Becks and Limbaughs are rabid and there will always be folks like them who manage to attract the malcontents. Their agenda isnt personal so much as the product of all the wishes of the business class projected as personal drama. It is hard to find commercial radio stations with political thinkers rising above the level of Rolaids/Preparation H/Gold for Cash advertizing.

**Jimaz** · January-08-11, 07:04 PM

Loughner's YouTube Channel

It's pretty nutty. Mind control, new currencies, government-controlled grammar, etc.

**Jimaz** · January-08-11, 07:14 PM

From 2:44 into Introduction: Jared Loughner:

If I define terrorist then a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

I define terrorist.

Thus, a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

If you call me a terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.
You call me a terrorist.
Thus, the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.

That's just creepy.

Chuck La Chez · January-08-11, 08:48 PM

Beck?!? He must be the nicest and most sincere guy on TV or radio. I learn something everytime I catch his show.

**canuck** · January-08-11, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by Chuck La Chez

Beck?!? He must be the nicest and most sincere guy on TV or radio. I learn something everytime I catch his show.

Different stokes [[sic) for different strokes!

Chuck La Chez · January-08-11, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

Different stokes [[sic) for different strokes!

Sure but if you're going to call someone "rabid", they should probably do something extreme besides teaching history?!?

**canuck** · January-08-11, 09:16 PM

I would rather get that from a historian rather than a propped-up pamphleteer

Chuck La Chez · January-08-11, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

I would rather get that from a historian rather than a propped-up pamphleteer

I don't have the time or money to go back to school for the history I missed.

Ravine · January-08-11, 09:29 PM

Still, the power of words is considerable, and just as I regret my snappage at ORF, I think if the bucket is full of ugly liquid, every drop that goes into it is part of the problem.

And, I just really gotta believe that the local sheriff is, even as we forum, getting the "I can't believe you said that, what the fuck is wrong with you" speech.

**Jimaz** · January-08-11, 08:53 PM

PLONK!10 characters

checkraisej · January-08-11, 09:44 PM

Ravine, did you and ORF have a conversation that is no longer here?

Ravine · January-09-11, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by checkraisej

Ravine, did you and ORF have a conversation that is no longer here?

No, we did not.
Inconvenient as it occasionally proves to be, I have a conscience. If I do something I feel wrong about, it really doesn't matter, to me, how it seemed to anyone else.

**gazhekwe** · January-08-11, 09:51 PM

Post 6 and 16. I agree with ORF's statement, but she did use the incendiary word terrorist. I think Ravine is going in the direction that fiery words only breed more fire. Still there has to be a way to express shock and anger without causing more trouble.

It is true that we have no idea if the shooter even knew about the so-called hit list or ever watched the opinion shows on either side of the spectrum. At this point we are outraged without a known target. But I think many of us have been afraid, since the day Sarah Palin happily whipped a crowd into a killing frenzy about Obama, that something like this would happen.

**gibran** · January-08-11, 10:11 PM

I am sorry that I am upset ... I just went to Sarah's Target list and this is why I get angry with the tea party... while Glen and the likes do not instruct people to do things that is an individual repsonsibilty...

We’re paying particular attention to those House members who voted in favor of Obamacare and represent districts that Senator John McCain and I carried during the 2008 election. Three of these House members are retiring – from Arkansas’s 2nd district, Indiana’s 8th district, and Tennessee’s 6th district – but we’ll be working to make sure that those who replace them are Commonsense Conservatives. The others are running for re-election, and we’re going to hold them accountable for this disastrous Obamacare vote. They are: Ann Kirkpatrick [[AZ-1), Harry E. Mitchell [[AZ-5), Gabrielle Giffords [[AZ-8), John Salazar [[CO-3), Betsy Markey [[CO-4). Allen Boyd [[FL-2), Suzanne M. Kosmas [[FL-24), Baron P. Hill [[IN-9), Earl Pomeroy [[ND-AL), Charlie Wilson [[OH-6), John Boccieri [[OH-16), Kathy Dahlkemper [[PA-3), Christopher Carney [[PA-10), John M. Spratt, Jr. [[SC-5), Tom Perriello [[VA-5), Alan B. Mollohan [[WV-1), and Nick J. Rahall II [[WV-3).

We’ll aim for these races and many others. This is just the first salvo in a fight to elect people across the nation who will bring common sense to Washington. Please go to sarahpac.com and join me in the fight.

Stand tall, America. Real change is coming