Suburbanite: Don't call me a Detroiter

[buildingsofdetroit]

You're either on one side of the battle over whether "suburbanites can call themselves Detroiters" or "you're not a Detroiter unless you live in the city."
But here's a Howell guy who wants nothing to do with the proud title: "I'm no Detroiter."

http://www.livingstondaily.com/artic...city%20changes

Haven't seen many people say that. Regardless, he makes accurate points on the anti-business model [[while spewing something about socialism or something), but I don't think - as a man who lives out in the hinterlands and a self-avowed non-Detroiter - he really understands everything at work here.

[dtowncitylover]

Who wants to be part of a bandwagon? It sure looks like this guy does. No one should be proud to be part of a bandwagon.

But many suburbanites from other cities [[i.e. Chicago, NYC, LA) are just like this guy, they want nothing do with their satellite cities. But in this man's case, he will only have something to do when something is done to better the city. Frankly, he's doing nothing by giving his useless opinion. I won't consider Livingston County though part of Detroit's suburbs. If someone in Howell or Brighton works downtown [[that's crazy), they exburban. He's an exburbanite. He shouldn't even be called a suburbanite.

[kathy2trips]

Who wants to be part of a bandwagon? It sure looks like this guy does. No one should be proud to be part of a bandwagon.

But many suburbanites from other cities [[i.e. Chicago, NYC, LA) are just like this guy, they want nothing do with their satellite cities. But in this man's case, he will only have something to do when something is done to better the city. Frankly, he's doing nothing by giving his useless opinion. I won't consider Livingston County though part of Detroit's suburbs. If someone in Howell or Brighton works downtown [[that's crazy), they exburban. He's an exburbanite. He shouldn't even be called a suburbanite.

Doesn't even deserve to attach himself in any way to Detroit. Sounds like part of the problem, not the solution. There's a certain amount of respect afforded to Detroiters here in Texas. There are quite a lot of us here.

Of course, in Lone Star Land, they wouldn't know Howell from "Bell and Howell", so this guy would just be a...Yankee !

[iheartthed]

His arguments are nonsense. Just because he disagrees with the way [[he perceives) the city government is run makes him not of it? So by that logic, people who actually live within the city limits can opt out of it too. And by extension, people who live in the state of Michigan can opt out of being Michiganders. And people who live in America can... You get the point.

That said, do many people even consider Howell part of Metro Detroit? Isn't it closer to Lansing than Detroit?

[iheartthed]

Oh yeah...

When the city of Detroit begins to embrace the economic models that make great American cities, perhaps then the surrounding counties that are enjoying a modicum of economic success will consider aligning themselves with Detroit.

L.O.L. What planet is he living on?

[lilpup]

Oh yeah...



L.O.L. What planet is he living on?

Isn't it nice how people like this [[and including the ex-pats interviewed in NYC for CNNMoney.com) so freely express that they're ready and willing to jump back onboard once the heavy lifting gets done??

Eff them

[ChickenSoupForTheDee]

That said, do many people even consider Howell part of Metro Detroit? Isn't it closer to Lansing than Detroit?

According to my estimates, it's closer to Detroit, by approximately six cornfields.

[lilpup]

Nobody who knows the area considers Howell part of Metro Detroit. It is closer to Lansing than Detroit. It's out past Brighton, further away than Ann Arbor, and most likely even out of the Census Bureau's definition of Metro Detroit.

Oh, and not in the 'tri-county' area, either. It's in Livingston County.

[MichMatters]

Look from where this was written: Livingston Daily [[A.K.A Howell).

What more needs to be said? Don't worry Robert Lagana; the feeling is mutual, I assure you.

[eriedearie]

from Wikipedia - At its core, Metro Detroit comprises the counties of Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb. These counties are sometimes referred to informally as the Detroit Tri-County Area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Detroit

This is what I always thought.

[Diehard]

Oh, he's from Howell. So if he feels safe sharing his perception of Detroit as a cesspool of corruption and socialist disgustingness, then I feel safe painting Howell as a backwater, gap-toothed KKK stronghold. Cue the banjos.
What is "capitalism" out there in the Livingston County cornfields? A huge Wal-Mart and some fast-food franchises off the freeway? Is that what Detroit should be striving for?
He has a point about downtown being event-oriented and the government being inept. There's a lot of work to be done to fix this city. Who doesn't know that?
That said, some smug dude writing from way out there in Howell about how he's better than Detroit ain't helping much. My guess is he doesn't spend much time in Detroit at all - he just relays what he's heard. Dropping the "socialism" bomb repeatedly tells me where he's really coming from.

[ziggyselbin]

While I agree that the word socialism is misplaced I do not disagree entirely with his opinion.

There has been with out question corruption in many area's of public service in Detroit. It has been stated over and over, even by posters here how hard it is to do business in Detroit.


Livingston county has [[maybe not recntly) exploded in population; mostly metro Detroiters. There is a damn good chance he is from Detroit originally.

There is validity to what he writes.Predictably you all choose to ignore that.

[MichMatters]

While I agree that the word socialism is misplaced I do not disagree entirely with his opinion.

There has been with out question corruption in many area's of public service in Detroit. It has been stated over and over, even by posters here how hard it is to do business in Detroit.


Livingston county has [[maybe not recntly) exploded in population; mostly metro Detroiters. There is a damn good chance he is from Detroit originally.

There is validity to what he writes.Predictably you all choose to ignore that.

When you want to be taken seriously in writing or in speech, what you don't do is drop rhetorical bomb after rhetorical bomb, and then subsequently expect people to respond thoughtfully when you're not trying to be thoughtful, yourself.

This man had no intention of writing a thoughtful critique of Detroit. What he wanted to do was to pack as much inflammatory language into his short letter-to-the-editor as he could to illicit a negative response, and he succeeded. He doesn't give a damn about the city, and it showed.

He obviously didn't want to be taken seriously, so I see no need to entertain his critique as anything more than the dime-a-dozen pieces of crap that get published in the Metro rags and on their forums.

If anyone is trotting this out, here, looking for a positive response to that letter, they'd best shop it elsewhere. I'm sure it'd get rave reviews at St%rmfr$nt, or some teabagger site. When all they can ever muster is "socialist this and socialist that" code, you know that they don't have an argument.

[detroitsgwenivere]

I'm glad to hear that Texans have respect for us. I appreciate Texans too, and I think some of us have much more in common than we realize. One of the reasons I chose to make my life in Detroit is because it affords me a certain level of freedom that I couldn't enjoy growing up in the suburbs of Metro Detroit. It might sound crazy to some, but I rather have the ability to take care of myself, defend myself if needs be, and give up this mentality that we must rely on government to babysit us. I'd rather take my chances with the dark streets, the empty buildings, the zombie homeless and the pirate hookers than have to be stared down by legions of ticket ready, trigger-happy, nazi suburb cops everyday. That's just me.

[EMG]

I'm glad to hear that Texans have respect for us. I appreciate Texans too, and I think some of us have much more in common than we realize. One of the reasons I chose to make my life in Detroit is because it affords me a certain level of freedom that I couldn't enjoy growing up in the suburbs of Metro Detroit. It might sound crazy to some, but I rather have the ability to take care of myself, defend myself if needs be, and give up this mentality that we must rely on government to babysit us. I'd rather take my chances with the dark streets, the empty buildings, the zombie homeless and the pirate hookers than have to be stared down by legions of ticket ready, trigger-happy, nazi suburb cops everyday. That's just me.

It depends on how you define "freedom." In the Detroit neighborhood in which I grew up, I would no longer feel safe, even with bars on my windows - especially in the later years as the gunshots became a more frequent occurence. When I later moved out to Grosse Pointe Woods [[where a "ticket-happy" cop was usually parked within a block of me at all times and I never heard a gunshot nor was a murder reported in the city in the entire 12 years I lived there), I was very glad knowing I was safer. I even managed to avoid getting any tickets - even from the meter maids. What makes the difference is a little thing called being law abiding citizens - and those who do that have no grounds to fear the police. It's more important to me that I feel safe in my own home and neighborhood than some criminal feel safe with how much they can get away with.

[detroitsgwenivere]

It depends on how you define "freedom." In the Detroit neighborhood in which I grew up, I would no longer feel safe, even with bars on my windows - especially in the later years as the gunshots became a more frequent occurence. When I later moved out to Grosse Pointe Woods [[where a "ticket-happy" cop was usually parked within a block of me at all times and I never heard a gunshot nor was a murder reported in the city in the entire 12 years I lived there), I was very glad knowing I was safer. I even managed to avoid getting any tickets - even from the meter maids. What makes the difference is a little thing called being law abiding citizens - and those who do that have no grounds to fear the police. It's more important to me that I feel safe in my own home and neighborhood than some criminal feel safe with how much they can get away with.

I agree that "freedom" is a matter of perspective, and that's my point. As so many of us debate on what we need to do to pull Detroit out of this pool of stagnation, I think people fail to realize that not everyone wants to take part in the grand vision of the so called "american dream." Better services, better schools, safer streets are something we all want for ourselves and our kids, but that doesn't mean we have to strive to be like our suburban counterparts. I grew up in a city that 16 years ago turned it's back on teenagers and seniors in order to cater to a wealther tax base. What ensued was an outright war against kids by the police. Before I turned eighteen, I couldn't tell you how many times i went to JAIL for things that were either absolutely rediculous, made up, or could've easily been handled by my parents as opposed to a court of law. The reason? Because the city decided they wanted to be percieved as more "business friendly" like Ferndale and Birmingham, so the cops were directed by city officials to remove the presence of young people on the main streets to cater to the 25-55 crowd. Next thing you know, hundreds of good kids are suddenly on some form of probation, their parents shelling out thousands of dollars in fines for things that normal kids do. The cops even waited outside of my high school, to search us randomly on our way home,even kids who never got less than a B their whole lives. They beat a black friend of mine with his own skateboard, and his family sued the city for millions. We decided to take to the streets, and Ch 7 has footage of our weekend protests against police brutality. Then the field trips to jail began. Shortly after, an arrest warrent was issued for my FATHER, who worked 10-18hour days for 30 years, because we had some peeling paint on our garage. My family, and many of my friends families, moved the hell out, and never looked back. My safe haven was Detroit. The cops were friendlier, the people were the salt of the earth, and where others saw fear and lawlessness, I saw an opportunity to rebuild a forgotten city into paradise. I know it's not for everyone, especially this dude from Howell.

[English]

My safe haven was Detroit. The cops were friendlier, the people were the salt of the earth, and where others saw fear and lawlessness, I saw an opportunity to rebuild a forgotten city into paradise. I know it's not for everyone, especially this dude from Howell.

I agree with the bolded statement. Detroit's decline over the past 40 years has selected for particular kinds of people, and those who are in their right minds [[e.g., not drinking or drugging or preparing to bash your head in) are some of the best people anywhere. My friends who live in other cities never fail to talk about how friendly Detroiters are when they come to visit. They're almost shocked.

They are seeing vestiges of what was once the pride of America. We'll get there again, folks. We'll get there.

[sumas]

Very nice post Novine.

I like Detroit, I like my neighbors, I like my house. I vote, shop local and support local churches and organizations that help make this city better. I quit trying to explain this city to anyone. Would I like to see some changes...of course but in the mean time I do my small part to keep up my neighborhood.

I rarely pass eight mile because everything I need is here. Burbs are fine if they meet your needs I just don't need what they have to offer.

[eastsidechris]

Given its history, I'm happy to hear that somebody from Howell doesn't want to be refered to as a Detroiter!

And Howell is not that much closer to Detroit than Toledo is, and I don't think I've heard that city's citizens refered to as Detroiters, either.

[313WX]

It's funny how some idiots in Michigan refuse to realize if Detroit goes, so does the state as we know it.

[313WX]

And I bet this guy is just one of those socially conservative Fox News watchers who just happened to be watching Glenn Beck when he was "discussing" the segment about the money they were giving out at COBO Hall.

[bartock]

...much ado about nothing. Just someone's opinion, like the same thing that many core Detroiters and suburbanites [[and especially their politicians) have done for years. I would say that I'm not sure what a "socially conservative" person watching Fox News/Glen Beck would have do about the Cobo hall thing, since if anything that would fall under fiscal policy. Yes, I guess this person is a symptom of the problem, but that problem exists all over this region...and as many people pointed out, Howell is not even a suburb. Read this - http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publ...cle_6576.shtml
...and try not to vomit, recognizing that this isn't Joe Blow Howell, but a crook...and unfortunately, someone who has been able to manipulate many people into believing him. Much more divisive on a number of levels to a much broader audience.

[noggin]

You folks just do not want the truth because you cannot handle the truth. Certainly Detroit elected a city council that is higher quality that has been seen in the past. But one member was reelected because she wanted to put more union jobs on the payroll and another who's total experience was a social worker. I did not see one who wanted to represent the people who have to pay the bills through high taxes.

Calling this person a part of the KKK conspiracy is just plain stupid. He simply told you the way it is. High taxes and a inflexible large government bureaucracy creates an environment sends a message to investors that they are not wanted. That is why most business ran to the suburbs. The only people left are the ones who want that free Obama money.

[rjlj]

Well said noggin. Denial of the anti-business environment Detroit has will continue to result in a deterioration of the city. I suspect the author from Howell is a business owner and he said nothing that was untrue.

[Detroitnerd]

It's important to get beyond gut reactions. Remember: Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. He is right when he says that Detroit's government is corrupt.

But I think he looks at it from too self-satisfied a point of view. What happens in places where people are poor, poorly educated, victims of institutional racism, denied the paths to prosperity? Usually, instead of electing good leaders, they are preyed upon by a kleptocracy.

Like it or not, the regional solution to social problems has been to set up barriers, even as our slums expand. To leave a city, a mall or a school to "them" and remove one's wealth and influence from the area. To bring in the bulldozers, whether it's to demolish "blight" or to build huge, moated freeways to keep "them" back.

So what do you get at the end of all that? You get a city that's increasingly short on revenue [[poor citizens, poor government), has to raise taxes [[anti-business policies), led by demagogues [[those who play race cards, etc.) who game the system [[corruption).

Now, it just seems to me that if you wanted to reverse the city of Detroit, you would merge most of the 40-odd municipalities into one system and overthrow the old regime. And you'll note that this isn't in the exurban playbook. Why? Because, for all they crow about socialism, corruption, anti-capitalist tendencies, etc., they are perfectly happy to shake their fist at the city from their exurban remove.

That's my take on it.

But in our haste to defend against this kook's disingenuousness, let's not blind ourselves to some of the very real problems he points to.