GM to plan move from RenCen to Dan Gilbert’s Hudson’s tower

[Atticus]

The Hudson Block is simply a much better quality office facility than the RenCen is, or could be. GM is getting a state of the art facility. That fact itself is good for the company, good for Detroit, good for Michigan. Yes it would have been better if some out-of-state Fortune 500 company was lured to relocate to the block, but that wasn’t realistic. Short of that, this is probably the next best thing.

As for the posts about how renovation of the RenCen side towers to hotel/residential being too cost prohibitive.., I am old enough to have heard very similar things said about the Book Tower, Metropolitan Bldg, David Whitney, etc. But those happened, and on a square foot by square foot comparison, a hypothetical RenCen conversion to hotel/lodging will cost a lot less than restoration of those historic jewels.

[mwilbert]

The Hudson Block is simply a much better quality office facility than the RenCen is, or could be. GM is getting a state of the art facility. That fact itself is good for the company, good for Detroit, good for Michigan. Yes it would have been better if some out-of-state Fortune 500 company was lured to relocate to the block, but that wasn’t realistic. Short of that, this is probably the next best thing.

As for the posts about how renovation of the RenCen side towers to hotel/residential being too cost prohibitive.., I am old enough to have heard very similar things said about the Book Tower, Metropolitan Bldg, David Whitney, etc. But those happened, and on a square foot by square foot comparison, a hypothetical RenCen conversion to hotel/lodging will cost a lot less than restoration of those historic jewels.

Just to be clear, I don't think it's impossible that it will ever happen. I think it's impossible now with current rents and interest rates, and it will probably take a while.

The Book Tower was basically shut down in 2007, so it was 15+ years before it was re-occupied. The two situations are not very similar, but it wouldn't be surprising if it took that long to get a conversion done.

Look at the Hudson's tower itself. How long has that taken, depending on when you start counting from? 25 years since the implosion, at least 7 years since the initial design. With incredible governmental support/subsidy and historically low interest rates.

I'm sure there's a future for the RenCen; I just don't know what it is or how we get there. Apparently GM and Gilbert will do some kind of investigation into what can be done; I'll certainly be looking forward to finding out what they come up with.

[stasu1213]

The Hudson Block is simply a much better quality office facility than the RenCen is, or could be. GM is getting a state of the art facility. That fact itself is good for the company, good for Detroit, good for Michigan. Yes it would have been better if some out-of-state Fortune 500 company was lured to relocate to the block, but that wasn’t realistic. Short of that, this is probably the next best thing.

As for the posts about how renovation of the RenCen side towers to hotel/residential being too cost prohibitive.., I am old enough to have heard very similar things said about the Book Tower, Metropolitan Bldg, David Whitney, etc. But those happened, and on a square foot by square foot comparison, a hypothetical RenCen conversion to hotel/lodging will cost a lot less than restoration of those historic jewels.

A fortune 500 company still can be lured into moving to the Block. GM is only occupying two floors. Bedrock should focus on getting an international corporation to open an office in the Block instead of the usual suspect such as Blue Cross Blue Shield.

[Gistok]

A fortune 500 company still can be lured into moving to the Block. GM is only occupying two floors. Bedrock should focus on getting an international corporation to open an office in the Block instead of the usual suspect such as Blue Cross Blue Shield.

They currently occupy 1 1/2 towers of the 4 tower RenCen. If they only take 2 floors of the Hudson's Block... then they are shipping 90% of their downtown employees out to Warren...

[Atticus]

They currently occupy 1 1/2 towers of the 4 tower RenCen. If they only take 2 floors of the Hudson's Block... then they are shipping 90% of their downtown employees out to Warren...

Important context: GM is effectively leasing-to-itself 1.5 of the 4 of the towers … as in 1.5 towers is the space they currently control for their own usage. Whether that “1.5 tower” amount of space is actually being utilized by GM workforce is a much different question.

GM doesn’t need that amount of RenCen space today. Effectively, what is probably being vacated in leaving the RenCen is 1) a lot of unused space, and 2) probably the workforce to fill 2 floors in the new Hudson block.

[Gistok]

This Detroit New article mentions only that GM is leasing the top 2 floors of the Hudson's block??

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...a2xgIyjZwsECLQ

I guess that Gilbert's Bedrock will be doing the leasing, etc. on the RenCen. That is good... they have the highest stake in making sure the RenCen doesn't lower the value of his other properties by being a huge symbol of downtown despair.

[Canadian Visitor]

While I certainly sympathize w/small retailers in the Ren Centre facing down a tough financial situation..........

I have to come out in favour of tearing it down.

Its incredibly anti-urban, anti-waterfront, it really contributes nothing positive to its surroundings [[other than being occupied [[once) by employers).

Re-extend Brush Street through to Atwater, extend Franklin and Woodbridge through to what should be Randolph and you gain urban, human-scaled blocks.

Make the riverside parking lots a waterfront park; reduce the width of Jefferson from 5 lanes each way to 3, and add cycle tracks.

Now you've got the basis of an area that can be attractive for hotels, for office and for residential.

Its a huge deal; and yes, it would be missed on the skyline but as structured it probably doesn't have a future and it probably shouldn't.

Any remaining office tenants can easily find space, maybe even trigger restoration of some in a nice heritage footprint.

The sad thing here is simply that REN is so big, a 3-tower version limited to one block might justified for retention, its shortcomings notwithstanding. But just like badly executed slum clearance for public housing, or a massive urban expressway, the damage is at such a scale its hard not to scar the landscape again when correcting the mistake.

[gthomas]

While I certainly sympathize w/small retailers in the Ren Centre facing down a tough financial situation..........

I have to come out in favour of tearing it down.

Its incredibly anti-urban, anti-waterfront, it really contributes nothing positive to its surroundings [[other than being occupied [[once) by employers).

Re-extend Brush Street through to Atwater, extend Franklin and Woodbridge through to what should be Randolph and you gain urban, human-scaled blocks.

Make the riverside parking lots a waterfront park; reduce the width of Jefferson from 5 lanes each way to 3, and add cycle tracks.

Now you've got the basis of an area that can be attractive for hotels, for office and for residential.

Its a huge deal; and yes, it would be missed on the skyline but as structured it probably doesn't have a future and it probably shouldn't.

Any remaining office tenants can easily find space, maybe even trigger restoration of some in a nice heritage footprint.

The sad thing here is simply that REN is so big, a 3-tower version limited to one block might justified for retention, its shortcomings notwithstanding. But just like badly executed slum clearance for public housing, or a massive urban expressway, the damage is at such a scale its hard not to scar the landscape again when correcting the mistake.

I agree with some things you're mentioning. This reminds me of the Water Square development on the riverfront. They came up with a great solution to tackling the "isolation" problem with the site, same goes with the RenCen.

The indoor podium needs to be demolished and create a direct street access to the hotel and the other buildings, with it's own entrance from street. Should build roads thru the site. Turn the Winter Garden into an outdoor event, retail, bar, restaurant destination. Similar to the outdoor led ceiling plaza in Las Vegas with the Zipline.

This solves the terrible pedestrian and automobile access, similar to the Joe Louis Site. Do the same for the RenCen

[Lowell]

Ooo I like this idea! Open air among the buildings. Break up the gloom.

The indoor podium needs to be demolished and create a direct street access to the hotel and the other buildings, with it's own entrance from street. Should build roads thru the site. Turn the Winter Garden into an outdoor event, retail, bar, restaurant destination. Similar to the outdoor led ceiling plaza in Las Vegas with the Zipline.

This solves the terrible pedestrian and automobile access, similar to the Joe Louis Site. Do the same for the RenCen

[ABetterDetroit]

Conversion to residential excepting the hotel tower would seem to be the best path forward for RenCen. Would it cost money and take some time? Of course. Many other cities are doing it so it can be done here.

https://time.com/6565216/offices-apa...e-hybrid-work/

[Gistok]

OK... came up with an idea... Gilbert buys it [[or is given it!)... but for bargaining chips...

Tell AAA Michigan... which used to be located in the United Artists Building until the early 1970s... when they moved out to Dearborn... that they can have a tower if they move back.

Tell Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, that they can have a tower and more of the complex... if they give Gilbert their gawd awful looking 5 block campus in Bricktown. It has an ugly tower, and takes up so much space. It would make a nice high density residential area, if they left.

Make 2 of the towers residential... and that way there would be day and evening traffic in the 4 story podium area that dies at night after the offices clear out. Maybe that would keep a huge hotel in place with 73 stories.

Just throwing out ideas here....

[canuck]

OK... came up with an idea... Gilbert buys it [[or is given it!)... but for bargaining chips...

Tell AAA Michigan... which used to be located in the United Artists Building until the early 1970s... when they moved out to Dearborn... that they can have a tower if they move back.

Tell Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, that they can have a tower and more of the complex... if they give Gilbert their gawd awful looking 5 block campus in Bricktown. It has an ugly tower, and takes up so much space. It would make a nice high density residential area, if they left.

Make 2 of the towers residential... and that way there would be day and evening traffic in the 4 story podium area that dies at night after the offices clear out. Maybe that would keep a huge hotel in place with 73 stories.

Just throwing out ideas here....

I think you are onto something about Gilbert’s ownership of the RENCEN. If anyone can operate their magic onto a piece of property, it would be Dan the man. The switcheroo from suburban office towers is also plausible in his able hands.

[Atticus]

I think you are onto something about Gilbert’s ownership of the RENCEN. If anyone can operate their magic onto a piece of property, it would be Dan the man. The switcheroo from suburban office towers is also plausible in his able hands.

I agree Gilbert/Bedrock are the best people for redeveloping the RenCen, but we need to be cognizant that luring suburban office workers to backfill empty offices is not the best path forward. Put bluntly, keeping the RenCen central tower as a hotel, and eventually converting the four surrounding towers to residential is the best use of the facility… with the caveat that maybe one of the four side towers could also serve as another hotel.

The world has changed. This idea of thousands of office workers making daily commutes to/from the RenCen is antiquated. The best outcome for the RenCen and Detroit is a residential conversion of the four towers. Yes it will be expensive and likely require government subsidies which will slow the process, but getting the subsidies needed to make it happen will be much easier now with GM vacating. This event brings public attention and highlights the need to undertake that costly repurposing. Maybe do one tower at a time to soften the impact to existing businesses… but the end result would be a much better use of resources than we have today.

Finally, let’s stop pretending that GM departing represents a huge loss to the RenCen. In 2024 there really aren’t that many GM office workers left there to begin with, and of those that still report there, many are only around for Tues/Wed/Thurs anyway. Replacing semi-absent office workers with residents who are there daily and buy more goods locally is a benefit. If done right, there is potential the RenCen ends up a much better place and economic generator than today. To me, this announcement makes the process for achieving that vision more attainable.

[stinkytofu]

I agree Gilbert/Bedrock are the best people for redeveloping the RenCen, but we need to be cognizant that luring suburban office workers to backfill empty offices is not the best path forward. Put bluntly, keeping the RenCen central tower as a hotel, and eventually converting the four surrounding towers to residential is the best use of the facility… with the caveat that maybe one of the four side towers could also serve as another hotel.

The world has changed. This idea of thousands of office workers making daily commutes to/from the RenCen is antiquated. The best outcome for the RenCen and Detroit is a residential conversion of the four towers. Yes it will be expensive and likely require government subsidies which will slow the process, but getting the subsidies needed to make it happen will be much easier now with GM vacating. This event brings public attention and highlights the need to undertake that costly repurposing. Maybe do one tower at a time to soften the impact to existing businesses… but the end result would be a much better use of resources than we have today.

Finally, let’s stop pretending that GM departing represents a huge loss to the RenCen. In 2024 there really aren’t that many GM office workers left there to begin with, and of those that still report there, many are only around for Tues/Wed/Thurs anyway. Replacing semi-absent office workers with residents who are there daily and buy more goods locally is a benefit. If done right, there is potential the RenCen ends up a much better place and economic generator than today. To me, this announcement makes the process for achieving that vision more attainable.

Absolutely and great post. Both the logical short term and long term plan.

[southen]

It will never be torn down. The cost to do that alone could be as much as conversion after subsidies.

If Gilbert gets his hands on it look to see another transformational proposal that will get a serious tax capture. If the surrounding lots are included in any sale or development agreement you might actually see a dense community develop in that area which might make the winter garden and other retail actually viable for the complex.

I was sort of bummed as this didn't/doesn't seem good on its face but there really is more potential if GM cedes control to Bedrock. I hope that the time between now and the move is enough to generate a solid plan for the complex so it isn't just sitting in limbo.

[Satiricalivory]

Why are people constantly talking about tearing the Ren Cen down? You might as well sit here and speculate on when pigs fly or the sky will fall. Not happening lol.

[DetBill]

I certainly hope they wouldn't tear it down,, love it or hate it, it is most certainly the major symbol of our city skyline , cities do not tear down their tallest symbol/ structure. The loss of the hotel would be major, I just hope they do not let it sit empty for 5 years, unless they intentionally want to force / destroy it. Im still trying to figure how GM is saving materially by maintaining the Ren Cen , and paying a lease to Bedrock,,who is going to maintain this structure during a “ transition”,, a major expense, unless their intent is to make it collapse,, I hope not., Hope Bedrock/ GM knows better, would be a major blow to Detroit and their mission of Downtown viability.

[Gistok]

^Agree

Also, the 500 & 600 towers have a different owner than GM.

Also, I think that if Gilbert does get ownership, he should give Blue Cross one of the towers for their HQ... next to RenCen towers 500 & 600 where they also have offices.... and trade it for their rather ugly 5 block "campus. It would be nice to put the street grid back into that part of downtown. They can same the BCBS tower and maybe another building... convert to residential, but get rid of those enormous parking decks, and put residential/retail in there.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/B...!1e3?entry=ttu

[Gistok]

^ Let's put this into context.... GM has 857 workers at the RenCen. GM has 21,000 employees working at the Warren Tech Center.

It's easy to put two and two together... they have been slowly leaving Detroit... to make Warren their HQ in all but name.

All that is happening now is that GM, the city and county have been sugar coating this.

GM has ended up screwing Detroit BIG TIME. Back when they bought the Ren Cen... Ford had 1,700 employees which they moved to Dearborn to make room for GM HQ. They made it their HQ, everyone else left... and now they are leaving the city with an empty shell, but it is all being sugar coated.

Looks like the former Warren mayor Jim Fouts is getting his wish.

GM CEO Mary Barra is no friend of Detroit.

[stasu1213]

^ Let's put this into context.... GM has 857 workers at the RenCen. GM has 21,000 employees working at the Warren Tech Center.

It's easy to put two and two together... they have been slowly leaving Detroit... to make Warren their HQ in all but name.

All that is happening now is that GM, the city and county have been sugar coating this.

GM has ended up screwing Detroit BIG TIME. Back when they bought the Ren Cen... Ford had 1,700 employees which they moved to Dearborn to make room for GM HQ. They made it their HQ, everyone else left... and now they are leaving the city with an empty shell, but it is all being sugar coated.

Looks like the former Warren mayor Jim Fouts is getting his wish.

GM CEO Mary Barra is no friend of Detroit.

Wasn't Mary Barea asked earlier this year if GM was going to leave the RenCen and she said no?

[Burnsie]

Wasn't Mary Barea asked earlier this year if GM was going to leave the RenCen and she said no?

Could only find Barra saying this in May 2022: "Right now, our plans are to be in the RenCen, we've updated many of the floors. But, um, I think we are focused...we don't occupy the whole RenCen, we're a couple of towers right now. But that's our home, that's what we're creating into open space. The HR team just moved to their new floor last week when I was there...into a new open workspace. So that's our home."

[Genesyxx]

I guess I see it as a 'push' but more of a negative. I understand being in the CBD in a great location for the workers that are still coming in. It's been long known that RenCen is isolated from the city, but in a way, GM didn't do much to change that outside of removing the concrete wall.

Since buying, they've done nothing to really bring in any tenants [[and have lost quite a few since the Winter Garden's heyday not long ago), nor develop the surrounding lots that it owns to make it a true home.

I hope they sell it soon to a developer who will turn it around quickly and make it something special. I hear people rumbling about Gilbert buying it, but I don't think that will happen. As far as converting it to hotel or residential, that will be a massive project and for someone with seriously DEEP pockets. For those still there, it will be a major blow and who knows what will happen after they eventually have to close or relocate.

[mkd]

GM CEO Mary Barra is no friend of Detroit.

I’ve long found her decision-making to be questionable. Attachment 43114

I worked at the Ren Cen prior to the pandemic doing some consulting work. They started displaying messages like this on the then-new video boards and I couldn’t figure out why the CEO of a company that sells cars would want to minimize the number of cars on the road...

Contrary to comments here about how confusing/cumbersome the Ren Cen is, I loved every part of working there... the views, the restaurants, multiple coffee shops, cars on display, CVS, post office, a cobbler, a tailor, riverfront access, a couple covered bridges or the people mover connected you to the core downtown. It was a nice place to be then.

This announcement should only be met with backlash by the community. I'd rather they leave for Warren altogether than keep a token presence at "Hudson's Detroit" just to be able to say they haven't left.

Anyone foreseeing a Gilbert miracle should be very cautious with any optimism. Take a look at the Monroe blocks, even our city's savior has his limits.

[sirrealone]

If having 95% of the workforce together in one campus is the most efficient for them to operate and make money, shouldn't we applaud them for making that decision? It was 15 short years ago when the entire company nearly went belly up because they were completely inefficient in just about everything they did.

Remember when they would sell hundreds of thousands of cars at a loss just so they could claim the highest market share? Very similar if they were to keep workers in a space that held them back, simply because of decisions that were [[correctly) made nearly 30 years ago.

Sure, moving to the RenCen in 1996 sounded great. It worked.

But a lot has changed.
The workforce has shrunk. They don't need all that space.

The industry has changed. They need to be agile and flexible.

Technology has changed. Many people can do their jobs from anywhere, which wasn't the case back then.

If this helps keep GM running as the lean, profitable, smart business that we demanded they become during the bailouts, then why complain about it? GM brought this space back to life, got 25 good years out of it, and now hopefully someone else will find a way to transform the space into something that fits better with today's world.

[Gistok]

^Silly us... we didn't know that centralizing all staff in 1 location was the answer to the problem. Here we thought product and development were the key.

[Cough... Kmart & Troy]