Bing to cut bus services

**Tig3rzhark** · August-17-09, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

Here's another ideal!

Let D-DOT busses run 15 to 30 minute peak hours from 6:00am. to 10:00am. and from 3:00pm. to 6:00pm. and run for every hour after peak hours. Let D-DOT busses run every hour on Saturday from 4:00am. to 11:00pm. and Sunday from 8:00am. to 8:00pm.

If that don't work, let's tell Bing and Detroit City Council to have SMART take over some of D-DOT after 6:00pm. and Sunday Service Or have D-DOT cut both Satuday and Sunday service and have SMART take over those services every hour from 4:00am. to 12:01am. on Saturdays and from 8:00am. to 8:00pm. every hour on Sundays.

Only a few routes that SMART has, goes through the city of Detroit currently.

I hear that SMART may go increase the fares on their services. Should they decided to take the duties of DDOT on the weekends, that could help keep Sunday service going.

**Danny** · August-18-09, 12:13 PM

If Mayor Bing cuts D-DOT weekend busses on September 26. His election year percentage would be the result:

Bing 38%
Barrow 59%

With a 3% marjin of error

If Bing don't cut D-DOTweekend bus service on September 26. His election year percentage would be the result:

Bing 77%
Barrow 20%

With a 3% marjin of error

From young mayor who was a 'playa' to a old mayor who once played 'old school' point guard from Detroit Pistons; no wonder so much people in Detroit voted for those losers instead of looking at the principles of other candidates.

**digitalvision** · August-18-09, 01:17 PM

Two systems is asinine. What a waste of money and duplication of resources. Any solution that doesn't merge the two is a half-measure. Much easier said than done, of course.

**Danny** · August-24-09, 07:34 AM

Now it's your chance to voice your concerns. FIGHT to save D-DOT saturday evening and Sunday bus service.

Detroit Department of Transportation

RIDER ALERT!
PUBLIC HEARING NOTICE

The Detroit Department of Transportation [[DDOT) will hold public hearings to present proposed service changes for September 2009.

I will be there at one of the D-DOT bus meeting.

http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/Portals/...ider_Alert.pdf

**Tig3rzhark** · August-24-09, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

Now it's your chance to voice your concerns. FIGHT to save D-DOT saturday evening and Sunday bus service.

Detroit Department of Transportation

RIDER ALERT!
PUBLIC HEARING NOTICE

The Detroit Department of Transportation [[DDOT) will hold public hearings to present proposed service changes for September 2009.

I will be there at one of the D-DOT bus meeting.

http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/Portals/...ider_Alert.pdf

I'm going to be at tomorrow's meeting at the Rosa Parks Transit Center, the morning and the afternoon one.

**stormin' norman** · August-24-09, 09:09 AM

Is not they only service to be cut under Bings' "new vision".
My prediction is no bus system or service.
The layoffs that the unions have been notified of are a lot more far reaching than the media lets on to. The layoffs are not across the board as you would think a sane normal company would do.
Just a few that I will tell you about are - Mechanical supervisory staff levels are around 35 - 23 will be cut. Emergency ddot dispatchers presently 12 - 3 will be left after cuts. fueling and cleaning personnel presently near 37 will be cut to 7, stockroom store keep levels are 23 they are to be cut by 24 which equals -1. These are just a few. there are well over 300 cuts being made. The freepress reported 30 drivers and around a 100 mechanics, over 200 drivers have been notified.
As you see these cuts are either a management scare tactic or the planned ending of service in detroit. No supervisors, no cleaning, no parts will effect service.

**bc_n_dtown** · August-24-09, 03:26 PM

Stormin' Norman is correct! The administration, led by Charlie Beckham and crew, plans to eliminate some key mid-management positions in DDOT's operations division without taking into consideration the added impact these cuts will have on service. It's bad enough he plans on laying off 212 coach operators [[113 by this Friday and 99 more next month) but Beckham now wants to eliminate almost the entire support staff responsible for placing and maintaining the service on the road.

Take for example the Transportation Emergency Dispatcher position. There are currently 15 employees budgeted for this position. The administration wants to layoff twelve. Sure one can holler that city government is too top-heavy in employees, but these are the employees who handle "all" radio communication calls within the department, from break-downs, service calls, coach accidents, unexpected detours, and coach disturbance calls. All DDOT emergency communications from coach operators, mechanics, road supervisors, yard, office and top level administrative staff are channeled through these employees. Yet, Beckham and crew expects three employees working 8-hour shifts to cover a 21-hour day, six-day a week operation. IMPOSSIBLE!!!

This move also places the safety of all DDOT on-street personnel and passengers in jeopardy as incoming emergency calls will back-up because of inadequate personnel staffing. Imagine a serious incident such as a passenger having a seizure or a fight on the coach and the operator is placed on hold trying to contact the emergency dispatcher because only one employee is on duty. This should be unacceptable!

And not to mention a few other positions be plans to render ineffective or almost eliminate, such as Sr. Transportation Service Inspectors [[road supervisors) who are responsible for monitoring service and adjusting service in the event of a breakdown, accident, missing runs, bus bunching and the like. Their ranks will shrink from 31 to 10. And lastly, the Transportation Terminal Supervisor [[a.k.a. Station Master), the "only" position at DDOT which is responsible for monitoring and maintaining manpower requirements, such as filling open runs in the event of an operator's absence, assigning the work assignments for all extra board operators, adjusting the manpower in the event of excessive absences, etc. Aside from administering disciplinary action, the TTS basically handles all office related activities at the satellite terminal level. Yet the administration wants to eliminate 15 of these employees, leaving only two to handle a 21-hour, six-day a week, two terminal operation. Another impossibility!

Truly this decision is the action of someone ignorant to the responsibilities of the positions he plans to eliminate, or just doesn't care what impact it will have on DDOT service.

**stasu1213** · August-24-09, 04:31 PM

Mildred Gaddis is using her radio show to pacify the residents and employees whom are against the proposal. She would ask her audience what would they do if no bus services are running on Sundays. When callers say that they will find a ride, she would allude that detroiters doesnt really need the busses. Would anyone agree with me.

**Russix** · August-24-09, 05:58 PM

Here is the new list of cuts:
Eliminating all overnight bus service
Eliminating all Sunday bus service
Eliminating all Saturday night bus service
Eliminating four bus routes entirely [[20-Grand Belt, 24-Holbrook, 76-Hayes Limited, and 78-Imperial Limited
Reducing service frequency and thus increasing wait times for most remaining bus routes

So no buses after midnight during the week
No buses from 6pm on Saturday till 6am Monday.

**Tig3rzhark** · August-24-09, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Mildred Gaddis is using her radio show to pacify the residents and employees whom are against the proposal. She would ask her audience what would they do if no bus services are running on Sundays. When callers say that they will find a ride, she would allude that detroiters doesnt really need the busses. Would anyone agree with me.

She is just another part of the corrosive culture that has caused Detroit to rust and decay.

Not everyone can just find a ride to where they need to go. When winter comes and the gas prices go up again [[and they will) her "callers" will be singing a different tune.

Bearinabox · August-24-09, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by bc_n_dtown

Truly this decision is the action of someone ignorant to the responsibilities of the positions he plans to eliminate, or just doesn't care what impact it will have on DDOT service.

Well, he doesn't take the bus.

**Danny** · August-25-09, 07:43 AM

Mayor Bing will LOSE the general election if he starts on his D-DOT bus cuts. This is BAD MOVE on his election year.

**One Shot** · August-26-09, 10:54 AM

I think its funny that another Detroit problem gets tagged with the race card. Whats funny is this time they're blaming a black man for turning on his own people. When can a problem just be a problem without having to blame it on what color someones skin is? God help Bing if he was a white man. Then again maybe thats the problem...He's not "black" enough for Detroiters.
I don't think the services should be cut but when times are tough, tough decisions must be made.
The rapper singing bring back Kwame was a good one...

**Tig3rzhark** · August-26-09, 11:21 AM

I was there at that meeting yesterday. There was a lot of pissed-off people.

This is one proposal that isn't going to fly.

Two incumbents and some candidates for city council, as well as Tom Barrow running for mayor. Charlie Beckam, Bing's admin officer, was there as well, but I couldn't point him out from the crowd.

Layoff notices will be issued on Friday for some of the bus drivers, most who drive during the weekend.

I'm no longer going to buy a regional bus pass since the DDOT doesn't have bike racks on most of their buses. I'll just ride my bike in Detroit and catch the SMART in the suburbs.

**digitalvision** · August-26-09, 12:56 PM

There's a couple reasons I don't like this cut, and don't like that buses are first. Lighting could of been privatized first, etc. etc. - that's a cut residents would not feel directly [[it's not like they all work anyway) and probably result in improved service. It very well may be this was the only place he felt he could affect change by October to prevent bankruptcy.

1) It cuts off job opportunities for Detroiters, inevitably putting more strain on the city through indirect costs of not being employed. Less jobs = more crime = more government subsidy. People will lose their jobs because of this.

2) It hurts/eliminates one of the few key things Detroit has going for it - urbanism and walkability. If you cut off service on weekends, you basically take away the alternatives for people who want to live in a walkable manner without a or using a car less. Who in the creative class is going to seriously consider Detroit city proper when they can't have the core services that they expect? It's going to be sad and pathetic that places like Royal Oak will have more mass transit on weekends [[and possibly weekdays) than Detroit proper. It sends completely the wrong message.

Seems like it might be a necessity at some point - but make cuts that don't cost residents jobs first.

**stasu1213** · August-27-09, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by digitalvision

There's a couple reasons I don't like this cut, and don't like that buses are first. Lighting could of been privatized first, etc. etc. - that's a cut residents would not feel directly [[it's not like they all work anyway) and probably result in improved service. It very well may be this was the only place he felt he could affect change by October to prevent bankruptcy.

1) It cuts off job opportunities for Detroiters, inevitably putting more strain on the city through indirect costs of not being employed. Less jobs = more crime = more government subsidy. People will lose their jobs because of this.

2) It hurts/eliminates one of the few key things Detroit has going for it - urbanism and walkability. If you cut off service on weekends, you basically take away the alternatives for people who want to live in a walkable manner without a or using a car less. Who in the creative class is going to seriously consider Detroit city proper when they can't have the core services that they expect? It's going to be sad and pathetic that places like Royal Oak will have more mass transit on weekends [[and possibly weekdays) than Detroit proper. It sends completely the wrong message.

Seems like it might be a necessity at some point - but make cuts that don't cost residents jobs first.

I think that is what Bing want. He want use to rely on cars more than busses or walking. Detroit is still trying to hold on to it's image is the Motor Capital of the World buy having it's residents or vistors to rely on cars to take you out in the suburbs. I don't think Detroit is as bad off as the politicians tell us. I think this is a ploy. Bing is being controlled by another source. In a long line of politician dated back to the twenties; Bing is there to make sure we don't get that walkabilty or good transit system. Unfortunately Detroit will not have that luxury for it will continue to be a pseudo car town. That is why the transit system is being tampered with.

**WWJNewsradio950** · August-28-09, 06:59 AM

The bus driver cuts are on hold--on hold for about a month at this point.

**Russix** · August-28-09, 07:45 AM

Probably more like 2 months. I can't imagine him lighting this fire again before the election.

**digitalvision** · August-28-09, 08:09 AM

The newspapers and some timely information saved the bus service in this instance.

With almost 30% unemployment and how much it was covered, I believe it made it politically impossible to cut them because of the stated impact on jobs. I wouldn't be surprised, however, to see cuts down the line.

**Tig3rzhark** · September-08-09, 09:45 PM

Thursday there will be a meeting at:

Follow-Up Meeting on Finalization of Service Changes
Considine Little Rock Family Life Center
8904 Woodward Avenue, Detroit
10 a.m. - 12 Noon
6 p.m. - 8 p.m.

It is there that we will find out how bad the cuts will really be.

**6nois** · September-09-09, 03:03 PM

This is really funny after all the news of cuts of weekend service now Bing says "Never was it my intent or our intent to cut services on Saturday or Sunday," Bing said. "There were too many people out there pushing their agenda unnecessarily."

And he is basically saying he never said that it was all union hype that caused people to think bus service was going to be cut on the weekend. I swear he is crazy, I don't trust this man as far as I could throw him.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...nd-bus-service

**Rocko** · September-09-09, 04:59 PM

I'm not familiar with the Hayes Limited or Imperial Limited routes, so I can't speak for them, but when I've passed the Grand Belt and Holbrook buses, they have people on board, and I mean more than just one or two. They still may be near the bottom when it comes to ridership on DDOT routes, but people use those buses! Maybe it would be in everyone's best interest to stop the multiple routing on the same streets by SMART and DDOT, for example, the 200 Michigan Ave. [[SMART) and 37 Michigan [[DDOT) run the same routing between Fairlane Mall and the Rosa Parks Transit Center... seems like kind of a waste, no?

**Tig3rzhark** · September-09-09, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Rocko

I'm not familiar with the Hayes Limited or Imperial Limited routes, so I can't speak for them, but when I've passed the Grand Belt and Holbrook buses, they have people on board, and I mean more than just one or two. They still may be near the bottom when it comes to ridership on DDOT routes, but people use those buses! Maybe it would be in everyone's best interest to stop the multiple routing on the same streets by SMART and DDOT, for example, the 200 Michigan Ave. [[SMART) and 37 Michigan [[DDOT) run the same routing between Fairlane Mall and the Rosa Parks Transit Center... seems like kind of a waste, no?

Considering that SMART buses rarely stop in Detroit during peak hours, it wouldn't seem like a waste. However there should be an effort made to stop the multiple routing such as

200 Michigan [[SMART) & 34 Michigan [[DDOT)
450/460 Woodward [[SMART) & 53 Woodward

I agree that it doesn't make sense for two systems to have the same routes. One of the best ways of starting a consolidation of bus service and to begin forming a regional authority is by stopping the multiple routing and stopping the discriminatory practices of SMART stopping to drop off in Detroit but not picking up anyone, thus being forced to wait on DDOT, the system that is making cuts and increasing wait times for all of their routes.

When all of DDOT gets their buses with bike racks on them, there should be efforts made with the greatest of haste to establish a regional authority to handle the needs of the metro Detroit region.

**Russix** · September-09-09, 10:02 PM

The major arterial roads may have the appearance of overlapping bus services, but they both serve entirely different “markets”. The SMART buses serve the suburbs, for the convenience of their riders their buses enter the city and terminate downtown. DDOT serves the city, and with the exception of a couple of shopping malls in surburbia I do not know of any area outside of the city that they service anymore[[use to). You should try out the consolidation on Grand River. You take the DDOT bus to 7 mile, wait for the SMART bus. Excellent consolidation, No Overlap! Adds a fucking hour to the trip. No bike rack. SMART has tossed around the idea to run the 450, 460 as limited service in the city where anyone can get on or off at its stops but it would only stop like every mile similar to how the light rail setup is playing out. Problem is they can’t determine how people will react to it and if they’ll understand it. I guess its more of a user problem.

**Rocko** · September-09-09, 11:11 PM

Russix, I see your point, but I wasn't thinking of it in your terms. Perhaps we need to consider how the streetcars operated back in the day. On Woodward, for example, DSR cars ran from the River up to the State Fair Station near 8 Mile. But some cars "short turned" at Log Cabin [[McNicholls), thus providing a greater frequency of services between Downtown and McNicholls.

For the consolidated Michigan Avenue example you cited, you could continue to have buses short turn at Fairlane mall for example, thus achieving the greater number of frequencies between there and downtown. But, it would eliminate the need for an inbound 37 Michigan DDOT to leave for downtown and then have a 200 Michigan SMART leave for downtown 3 minutes later. In this way, you could combine the fleets of the two companies on certain routes, spreading the intervals out between the two [[current SMART & DDOT), which would actually decrease intervals between physical buses.

If people using current SMART buses from the outer burbs are worried about stopping in Detroit or how long continuously stopping at Detroit stops would take, morning and afternoon rush hours regular service [["local") can be complimented by "Limited" service, with coaches only stopping at major transfer/cross streets in the city and then at any suburban stop elsewhere, but unlike the current SMART service, one could still board a Limited bus at Trumbull, for example, and disembark at Livernois, if using the Michigan route as an example again. I think this is more of what I had in mind.