United Artists Theatre

**Doma** · September-20-09, 02:47 PM

Sweet, and hint as to where this information was acquired?

Originally Posted by izzyindetroit

The UA is being prepped for a future tenant. The tenant is government related.

That is all I got, but hey, you heard it here first.

Stosh · September-20-09, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Doma

Sweet, and hint as to where this information was acquired?

I'll bet it's the Ministry of Silly Walks. Or the new 20 million dollar leased home of the Detroit Pension Fund. One way to get the Wings a new arena huh?

dexterferry · July-18-09, 01:05 PM

all I meant by that is that I hesitate to get too angry about what happens to detroit's buildings [[I get a lot more angry about indifference/violence to people). so some loser pulls down some plaster to hang on his chinese drywall, that's a small act of violence in a city plagued by far worse.

That said, I call bullsh-- on Krawlspace ever giving those elements back. It's really brave coming on some anonymous forum showing off stolen goods and claim you'd give them back if anyone ever wanted them. How is Ilitch going to contact you "Krawlspace"? all of this is besides the point, as Stosh suggests, criminal behavior like those only encourages these buildings to be torn down [[and provides Krawlspace with the convenient but essentially bankrupt justification for his criminal acts).

I am so sick of graffiti taggers, scrappers, [[sub)urban explorers, and architectural thieves and their various excuses and justifications for what is undeniably criminal behavior. man up and own what you do: no one is saying you are going to get arrested, but stop acting like a bunch of heroes for this retarded sh--. your petty little victories may make you feel like big men, but in the end the petty sh-- you do makes the city worse for the rest of us. Grow up.

**Krawlspace** · July-18-09, 03:02 PM

See? I knew it would happen...
First of all I live in the city of Detroit and have for my entire life. I own my own home here. I'm not some transplant. Not that that gives me any cred or bragging rights, but just wanted to clarify.
Second, every one of the buildings I have taken these items from was slated for or in the process of demolition, EXCEPT for the UA. The UA piece was on the floor. I didn't rip anything down. It was the only thing I took from the building besides photos.
Third, why would anyone need to contact me to return anything? If the building was getting rehabbed, I would probably know, and take it to them. The fact that it has never happened to any building i have taken plaster from so far isn't my fault, and you are baseless in calling me a bullshitter.
Fourth, I have never broken into a building in my life. I either secure permission from the owner, the demo crew, or go in a way that was already opened. I know that last way qualifies as trespassing, and I will admit to being guilty of that. So what?
Fifth, I do not destroy anything. Never threw a rock, never tagged a wall, never set a fire.

If you think I'm wrong, that's cool. Your opinion is exactly that. Call bullshit, or tell me to grow up or be a man. I couldn't care less what you say up there on your high horse. The vast majority of damage I find in these buildings is from the elements, not people. As for me, I would much rather save what I can from impending destruction instead of standing outside and watch the wrecking ball turn it all to dust and lament that I never got to see what it looked like inside.
I live in the city, I pay taxes, and I go inside abandoned buildings.
So I guess that all I do is make the city worse for the rest of "us".

Lorax · July-18-09, 08:30 PM

Krawlspace, I'm definitely on your side. I've been liberating things from doomed buildings, either with the permission of the owners, or, during demolition. I have never gone in and removed pieces from buildings that were simply open to scavenging, for no other reason then I was too chickenshit. More power to you.

If it weren't for people like Krawlspace, we wouldn't have any shred of evidence other than photographs that these places even existed. I loved the Ramona Theatre, by the way, and was there when it was demoed about 30 years ago. The Grand Riviera was it's sister theater, which came down not too long ago.

Until Detroit, it's slumlords, and it's police get their act together, then it's open season as far as I'm concerned. I say the Abyssinian Church on Woodward should be either sealed shut or stripped by those who will preserve the artifacts. The city should be doing it to buildings they own as far as I'm concerned.

Refer to my thread on the Book Building and it's golden cherub clock hanging from the lobby ceiling. Let's see it that makes it to the end of the year. Tick tock, tick tock.....

**Krawlspace** · July-18-09, 09:07 PM

Thanks Lorax...
Funny you should mention the Abyssinia/Woodward Presbyterian church.
I was thinking about that very building while writing my last post.
Beautiful church with a huge, gaping hole in the roof. Nothing destroys plaster and wood faster than water. But there it will sit, melting, with all it's former grandeur pooled up on the floor. But it's people like me who are responsible for its [[and apparently the entire city's) demise.

Lorax · July-18-09, 09:15 PM

Your welcome, Krawlspace.

I have a fantastic scroll in carved limestone from above one of the dozens of 20 foot arched windows of Rose Terrace in Grosse Pointe, a lead stairway finial in the form of a Grecian female from the Wesson Seyburn estate, among other things. I did have dozens of items from churches, and mansions both in Detroit and the suburbs, but either sold them or gave them away during frequent moves over the years.

There is [[or was) a grouping of incredible plaster heads and other items from some building sitting in that Knightsbridge Antique Mall, which I believe is in Livonia or Farmington, can't remember which! I was there last month and saw them, really great.

Blarf · July-19-09, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by dexterferry

all I meant by that is that I hesitate to get too angry about what happens to detroit's buildings [[I get a lot more angry about indifference/violence to people). so some loser pulls down some plaster to hang on his chinese drywall, that's a small act of violence in a city plagued by far worse.

That said, I call bullsh-- on Krawlspace ever giving those elements back. It's really brave coming on some anonymous forum showing off stolen goods and claim you'd give them back if anyone ever wanted them. How is Ilitch going to contact you "Krawlspace"? all of this is besides the point, as Stosh suggests, criminal behavior like those only encourages these buildings to be torn down [[and provides Krawlspace with the convenient but essentially bankrupt justification for his criminal acts).

I am so sick of graffiti taggers, scrappers, [[sub)urban explorers, and architectural thieves and their various excuses and justifications for what is undeniably criminal behavior. man up and own what you do: no one is saying you are going to get arrested, but stop acting like a bunch of heroes for this retarded sh--. your petty little victories may make you feel like big men, but in the end the petty sh-- you do makes the city worse for the rest of us. Grow up.

Bitching about recovering broken pieces of plaster that would have been tossed in the garbage during a restoration? Grow up.

**Gistok** · July-19-09, 12:26 PM

Lorax, although the Ramona [[which I went to as a child) and the Grand Riviera [[also at times known as the Riviera)... looked like twins from the outside, they were quite different inside.

The 1925 buiilt Grand Riviera was by famed "atmospheric" theatre architect John Eberson. Eberson built the 2,786 seat Grand Riviera with a "Mediterranean Village" style to the auditorium sidewalls. And it had a large balcony. It was Detroit's finest atmospheric theatre [[runner up had to have been the surviving Redford Theatre, a Japanese atmospheric).

Atmospheric theatres had a blue painted flat curved ceiling, with all the ornate plaster detailing around the procenium and sidewalls to make it seem like you were in some exotic ancient courtyard once the house lights dimmed. Many atmospheric theatres even had machines that twinkled lights and clouds onto that nighttime sky to make the effect even more real.

Here is a link showing the beauty of the atmospheric interior of the Grand Riviera... sadly pounded to rubble in 1999.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage...pe=1&maxCols=4

As for the smaller Ramona... I vaguely remember that all the seating was on the main floor, so that

As for the 1929 built Ramona, it seated 2,020 and was not an atmospheric theatre. It was designed by the rather obscure architectural firm of Kohner & Payne. Sadly it was pounded to rubble in 1978. It had a beautifully detailed Mediterranean style auditorium:.

http://www.waterwinterwonderland.com...?id=736&type=5

**Gistok** · July-19-09, 12:30 PM

Lorax, although the Ramona [[which I went to as a child) and the Grand Riviera [[also at times known as the Riviera)... looked like twins from the outside, they were quite different inside.

The 1925 buiilt Grand Riviera was by famed "atmospheric" theatre architect John Eberson. Eberson built the 2,786 seat Grand Riviera with a "Mediterranean Village" style to the auditorium sidewalls. And it had a large balcony. It was Detroit's finest atmospheric theatre [[runner up had to have been the surviving Redford Theatre, a Japanese atmospheric).

Atmospheric theatres had a blue painted flat curved ceiling, with all the ornate plaster detailing around the procenium and sidewalls to make it seem like you were in some exotic ancient courtyard once the house lights dimmed. Many atmospheric theatres even had machines that twinkled lights and clouds onto that nighttime sky to make the effect even more real.

Here is a link showing the beauty of the atmospheric interior of the Grand Riviera... sadly pounded to rubble in 1999.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage...pe=1&maxCols=4

As for the 1929 built Ramona, it seated 2,020 [[all on the main floor) and was not an atmospheric theatre. It was designed by the rather obscure architectural firm of Kohner & Payne. It was pounded to rubble in 1978. It had a beautifully detailed Mediterranean style auditorium:.

http://www.waterwinterwonderland.com...?id=736&type=5

In a sense, the Grand Riviera and Ramona were like an enormous pair of bookends, one anchoring Grand River on the west side, the other Gratiot on the east side... in the same sense as the large elegant mansard roofed Montogmery Wards stores anchoreing each street on Grand River/Greenfield and Gratiot/7 Mile Rd.

**Huggybear** · July-19-09, 04:31 PM

Gistok, most of the Riviera was destroyed in 1996 when they tore down everything but the facade. I was down there, and one of the guys said that they were saving it. But then a week later the facade was down too.

**Gistok** · July-19-09, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Huggybear

Gistok, most of the Riviera was destroyed in 1996 when they tore down everything but the facade. I was down there, and one of the guys said that they were saving it. But then a week later the facade was down too.

Thanks Huggybear, I thought it was earlier than the 1999 date posted on the website comments [[I thought 1995)... but I couldn't remember.

Sadly both Grand River and Gratiot were stripped of their most prominent buildings [[movie palace and department store) from their outlying stretch of roadway in Detroit.

**Huggybear** · July-23-09, 07:27 AM

The only reason I know it was 1996 was from where its picture appeared in a sequence of other pictures I had. I would place the demo in May/June. The school year was definitely over.

By department store, do you mean the MW[[?) at Oakman or the Crowley's and Federal's at Greenfield?

Originally Posted by Gistok

Thanks Huggybear, I thought it was earlier than the 1999 date posted on the website comments [[I thought 1995)... but I couldn't remember.

Sadly both Grand River and Gratiot were stripped of their most prominent buildings [[movie palace and department store) from their outlying stretch of roadway in Detroit.

DetroitDad · July-20-09, 09:36 PM

The development oppurtunity banners and for sale/lease sign came off the United Artist right around the time that work started. I believe the building has also been taken off a couple real estate websites as well. Besides the U.A. I find it very interesting that anything is going on with the Adams in such a soft office market. What is going to happen around Grand Circus Park that will call for these two properties being brought back?

EastSider · July-23-09, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitDad

The development oppurtunity banners and for sale/lease sign came off the United Artist right around the time that work started. I believe the building has also been taken off a couple real estate websites as well. Besides the U.A. I find it very interesting that anything is going on with the Adams in such a soft office market. What is going to happen around Grand Circus Park that will call for these two properties being brought back?

Wouldn't it be something if Olympia Development built a parking garage behind the Fine Arts facade?

**Gistok** · July-23-09, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitDad

The development oppurtunity banners and for sale/lease sign came off the United Artist right around the time that work started. I believe the building has also been taken off a couple real estate websites as well. Besides the U.A. I find it very interesting that anything is going on with the Adams in such a soft office market. What is going to happen around Grand Circus Park that will call for these two properties being brought back?

With Quicken focused on either the Hudson's or Monroe Blocks, no one knows what the plans are for either the UA or the Fine Arts Building. I don't think there will be a parking structure behind the Fine Arts Building, because that building doesn't have that large of a footprint... and where would the entrance/exit go? If a parking structure were to go in the area, the former Adams Theatre site would be a better [[larger) site.

One thing I do know... if the UA were being readied for demo... it wouldn't require 2 years of preperation AND a new roof!

Could it be the "residential/entertainment" part of what Quicken wanted downtown?

Or couldl it be part of a new hockey arena complex?

The good news is that the building is being worked on, and it doesn't appear to be preparations for demolition.

**rsa.313** · July-23-09, 02:20 PM

gistok; were you ever able to verify that there is a new roof on the currency exchange building and united artists theatre? i'm still skeptical. i took a close look from ground level and it appears that the old condensors for the HVAC system on both roofs are still in place, which would lead me to believe that they were not moved for a proper roof rebuild/installation.

however, evidence that it might not meet the wreckers ball is in the windows. the windows were painted with graffiti before the super bowl. for the super bowl, the ilitches painted over them with a simple shade of grey. if you now notice, all paint has been removed and the windows appear to be in better condition than they were in before.

i wouldn't put much faith in it being a part of any future hockey arena. when CoPa was going in on that side of woodward, it was slated for demolition. that and it's relative distance from other amassed property would lead me to believe it would not be connected to that possible future development.

neither the fine arts or adams theatre site alone lend themselves very well to a parking garage. however, if you span over the alleyway, that might be feasable. this would also make sense with the requirement for street level retail in all future parking garages in the CBD; garage entrance would be off elizabeth, ramp up to a second level, leaving the first level of the fine arts for retail. however, based on the ilitch's track record for building parking garages, i suspect both sites will be surface parking for the foreseeable future.

it did strike me as interesting that atanis and dan [[gilbert) no longer seem to be publicly "in bed" together. maybe one of gilbert's companies aside from quicken might be moving into the currency exchange building? and whatever happened to the redevelopment of the detroit life building further up park?

**Gistok** · July-23-09, 02:30 PM

Since this thread is going to the Hall of Fame, we might as well save a copy of the colorful [[but sadly destroyed) Chicago United Artists image from 1985 [[4 years before it was razed) from my link in a previous post.

After a few years links have a nasty habit of no longer working... so here's Russell Phillips nice image saved for posterity...

**56packman** · July-23-09, 05:39 PM

Gistok, I was in the Chicago UA in 1978 and remember that it kind of like the Detroit UA [[I was at the DuMochelle auction of the UA in1975) and remembered the fact that it looked odd, there were traces of a much older theatre there. I bought a book that THS put out for their 1977 convention with pictures and descriptions of all of Chicago's palaces, I still have it. I looked up the Chicago UA in that book when I got home from that trip and discovered the Crane re-model business. Went into a lot of theatres in Chicago in '77-'82. the loop still had most of its houses--the Woods, UA, Oriental, Chicago, Roosevelt, we visited them all.
Did you ever go to the Esquire before they butchered it? I went there on the same trip as the UA visit, saw "An Unmarried woman" first run.
The percentage of theatres showing first run product in Chicago vs Kung-Fu and Blaxploitation in Detroit was readily apparent to me at that age!

**Hornwrecker** · July-23-09, 06:45 PM

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EastSider · July-23-09, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I don't think there will be a parking structure behind the Fine Arts Building, because that building doesn't have that large of a footprint... and where would the entrance/exit go? If a parking structure were to go in the area, the former Adams Theatre site would be a better [[larger) site.

It's only the facade they're saving. The garage could extend from the Fine Arts facade, all the way through to where the Adams was, don't you think? They could leave the alley free for the first or second story and go from there.

As far as entrance, maybe off Adams right there, next to the Fine Arts, although that would require curb cuts and that could be a tough sell. Better to enter and exit from the other street.

**Gistok** · July-25-09, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by EastSider

It's only the facade they're saving. The garage could extend from the Fine Arts facade, all the way through to where the Adams was, don't you think? They could leave the alley free for the first or second story and go from there.

As far as entrance, maybe off Adams right there, next to the Fine Arts, although that would require curb cuts and that could be a tough sell. Better to enter and exit from the other street.

The Adams was known as an "alley jumper" theatre. I'd be curious to know if Detroit has any "alley jumper" parking structures.

Never mind... we have one even bigger... a "steet jumper"... the Millender Center Parking structure.

**Gistok** · July-25-09, 12:44 PM

Thanks for the nice images Krawlspace!

56packman, unfortunately I was never in a single Chicago theatre.

The Chicago United Artists was built in 1920 as the Apollo Theatre, a legitimate playhouse with a classic exterior. It was gutted in 1927 [[using C. Howard Crane's design) as the Chicago UA. Yes there are some features from the previous design that carried over into the newer theatre.

In reading all the comments about the Chicago UA in Cinema Tresures, it seems that they had a serious rodent problem in the theatre [[perhaps they had some restaurants nearby). The rat problem got so bad that they closed off the main floor seating, and only had balcony seating for movies. When the wrecking ball finally came in 1989, the number of rats that hightailed it out of there must have been astonishing!

Interestingly enough the razed Chicago Roosevelt Theatre [[IIRC on the same block as the UA) was a prototype for the much larger Detroit Capitol Theatre 5 years later [[similarly C. Howard Crane also had the 1917 Detroit Madison Theatre used as the prototype for 1919 Orchestra Hall).

One thing about Chicago theatres is that most of the best theatres there were outside of downtown. [[besides the Chicago, Oriental and Auditorium Theatres). The Uptown, Paradise, Marbro, Granada, Tivoli and Southtown were beautiful massive theatres in the outlying neighborhoods... now all sadly razed [[save for the closed decaying Uptown).

Here is a picture of the Chicago UA lobby [[1st pic).

And speaking of Chicago theatres and the use of ingredients in plaster to make for better plaster... here is an outside and inside view of the Chicago Paradise Theatre [[pounded to rubble 1954-56).

On the outside it was considered the world's most beautiful theatre... architect John Eberson couldn't have done a better job of capturing France's "Second Empire" architectural glory.

But on the inside it had what were arguably the world's worst acoustics. Lots of echoes and muffled sound, that even additives to the plasterwork couldn't help. One of the reason it was destroyed so early [[besides having a nearby larger theatre as a competitor) was due to the bad acoustics. It is likely that the flat dome shaped atmospheric ceiling was [[at least partly) responsible for the bad sound.

**mcsdetroitfriend** · July-25-09, 09:52 PM

Check out this lavish premiere that occured for "Anatomy of a Murder" which happened at the UA. It's like L.A.!!!
http://www.archive.org/details/Anatomyo1959

**Gistok** · July-25-09, 10:15 PM

PBS Channel 56 had a 1 hour documentary on Anatomy of a Murder production in the Upper Peninnsula, and on how it really helped the bad economy around Marquette during the 1958-59 recession. Producer Otto Preminger wanted it all filmed on location, and it was. He also wanted the world premier held here in Detroit [[UA).

Interestingly enough the Chicago UA also had a world premier during that era... Alfred Hitchcock's "North By Northwest", much of which was filmed in Chicago.