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Some friends would like to do a short tour of old Belgian neighborhoods later this month. We will be ending up at the Cadieux Cafe, but would like to drive around a bit before we go there.
Are there specific areas that were known as Belgian neighborhoods at one time?
Are there any landmarks or historical buildings that we should see?
Any links to stories related to historical Belgian neighborhoods?
Thanks
The Belgians largely lived in Detroit east of Cadieux. But there were Belgians in East English Village and Morningside also, plus north of I-94.
the Guilford Bar on Harper [[i think it has a new name now) was a Belgian hangout and had an
archery room. Most likely some of the Catholic churches in that area had large Belgian communities. Many of the bars on Harper and on East Warren were Belgian hangouts.
Perhaps the folks at the Belgian-American Association of Detroit, Michigan might be of help to you: http://www.thebaa.us/Default.aspx
There is also a former Belgian ethnic hall that I have yet to photograph. MikeM could tell where that is. I remember him posting a picture of it on the old forum.
While not in the neighborhood, I think the ruins of the Dorais velodrome might qualify as a Belgian site too. Scroll down in this thread to see it: http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/...tml?1147780842
It was the former Belgian American Business Men's Association, on Hurlburt south of Sterritt, which is just northeast of the Gratiot-Harper intersection.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...02763&t=h&z=19
Yes, the general area bordered by approximately Harper/Cadieux/Mack/Radnor is the primary area that comes to my mind. Particularly the southeast corner of that area, around the Cadieux Cafe area.Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonite
When my father lived on St Clair just south of Warren beginning in 1919 when he was six, he said that there were a lot of Belgian kids in his elementary school from 1st to 6th grade.
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The Belgains lived all across the southern east side for many decades. One of the earliest areas they were concentrated in was around St. Charles Borromeo church on Baldwin near Lafayette, which was built to serve the Flemish Belgian Catholic community. My grandfather, who was Irish-American, grew up in that area and was friends with a lot of Belgian kids. Even when I was a kid in the 60s there were still a few older Flemish Belgians in that area and at least one Belgian run store that I remember well.
In that era there were a lot of Belgians concentrated around the Chalmers-Kercheval and Chalmers-Mack areas where some of my cousins lived. I know there was a bar at the corner of Eastlawn and Charlevoix that was owned by some Flemish people, because I remember going in there several times with my great-uncle and aunt [[it was called something like the Jolly Dutchman if I remember correctly). There were a number of Belgian businesses in that neighborhood, and I believe that Verdonckt's Bakery is still operating near there on Mack and Wayburn.
Up around Harper and Cadieux was another Belgian concentration. I remember a Belgian grocery store that was operating up there well into the 80s, and I think that Vergote's Poultry is still a going concern on Harper. I knew a couple of families of Belgians up there, who were in the bar business on the east side and friends of my grandparents, who sent their kids to Austin Catholic High on Warren by Balduck Park. Of course, one of the most famous Detroit Belgians, basketball hall-of-famer Dave DeBusschere, went to high school there before moving on to stardom at U of D and in the NBA.
EastsideAl's quote:
"...The Belgains lived all across the southern wast side for many decades. One of the earliest areas they were concentrated in was around St. Charles Borromeo church on Baldwin near Lafayette, which was built to serve the Flemish Belgian Catholic community. My grandfather, who was Irish-American, grew up in that area with a lot of Belgian kids, and even when I was a kid in the 60s there were still a few Flemish Belgians in that area..."
Reminds me of my aunt, one of three sisters who joined the convent, who chose Charles Borromeo as her nun name. Grandfather was Irish American, and his daughters taught in Detroit parochial schools for generations. Do any of the older forum members recall her as an elementary school teacher?
Detroit was a "checkerboard" of ethnic enclaves back then, defined by the neighborhood church and small neighborhood bars and markets.
My Dad was a member of the Belgian-American Floor Bowlers that usually played out of Bill & Madeline's Bar on the eastside but I don't recall on what street. They may have played out of other bars too. I grew up on the westside so we usually only went to the semi-annual or annual banquets. The annual banquet included a motor vehicle parade thru the Belgian neighborhood with that years' champion riding in an open car. This was in the early 60s.
Reminds me of my aunt, one of three sisters who joined the convent, who chose Charles Borromeo as her nun name. Grandfather was Irish American, and his daughters taught in Detroit parochial schools for generations. Do any of the older forum members recall her as an elementary school teacher?"
Would that be one of the Hughes sisters? If so, you are vastly under-reporting their careers!They were all three tremendous women, educators, tireless leaders, classic liberals, magnificent religious women.
In the fall I saw a program on TV that spot lighted an elderly Detroit area Belgium couple. The program started with the couple and a host at a Belgium Club were the man demonstrated Feather Bowling. They went to the couples home and the wife made some Belgium dishes with the host, talking about Belgium traditions while cooking.
I wish I could remember the club they were at. The man was the ex-President of it.
Thank you. You are correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMAP
"Join the convent and see the world", and "There are no slow students, only ineffective teachers" are two quotes that I recall from my aunts.
Cat's out of the bag, now. I am proud to be a member of that family!
The last honest mayor of the City of Detroit came out of the Belgian community, Mayor Cobo.
Our Lady of Sorrows on Meldrum and Benson was "the Belgian Church". It burned down and was replaced with a new building which has since closed. I assume that must have been where Belgian immigrants first settled. It was before my time. I remember the Mack Eastlawn area as having a high percentage of old timer Buffaloes. The first US born generation moved further east in Detroit - something like the Finney high school neighborhood and beyond Balduck Park and into adjacent east side suburbs. The second generation, by now mainstream Americans, tended to move to St. Clair Shores and further north.
Some business names I can remember; Verhoeven Chevrolet, Vanlaerberge[[sp?) and VerHeyden Funerals, DeLue andVanHull Butchers, VerDonkt Bakery, Brouke's Bar, Cornelie Fuel, Embo's Market, De Gazette van Detroit weekly newspaper, VerGote Poultry, DeFour Insurance.
In the 60's, the Soccer Club Belgica, played their home games at Balduck Park. There was bicycle club based out of the Cadieux Cafe. The Belgian parade came down the end of E. Warren and ended at Mack. The'Belgian Hour' played weekly on the radio.
I think there was a thread here about alley houses, a Belgian contribution to eastside architecture. That and some garages big enough to live in because that is what they did until they saved enough money to build a house in front of and near the garage.
http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/6790/80805.jpg
My grandmother roasted fresh chicken from Vergotte's on most Sundays of the year while I was growing up [[not to mention that's where our Thanksgiving turkeys came from too - even after my grandmother had passed away and we moved to GPW!!!) - but I never realized Vergotte's was a Belgian name!
Besides so many of the familiar Belgian businesses already mentioned, I remember my dad going out for a beer to Hazebrouck's [[or Van Hazebrouck's) on Charlevoix. I'm thinking that it is or was near the site of today's Ye Old Tap Room. Does this ring a bell for anyone?
Oladub mentioned Brouck's Bar. Where was that?
One thing I remember growing up in the Balduck Park area was all the Belgian surnames of schoolmates and neighbors.... Guns, Theiron, Van Den Bussche, Van Der Kerchove, Buschbacher...
And then there's the pigeon coops... I remember all those backyards with multistory pigeon coops.
q: " Oladub mentioned Brouck's Bar. Where was that?"
Recently located on Harper, just south of 8 Mi Rd, near where Harper Woods, St Clair Shores, Grosse Pointe Woods all meet.
No wonder that name sounded so familiar....it's where my high school boyfriend took me on my 18th birthday for a drink!!! The only time I've ever been there.... Thanks, Bobl, for jogging that memory!!!
There used to be a bar on Charlevoix near Maryland that was called either Brook or Brouke bar, but I'm not sure of the spelling. It was just a neighborhood joint a little way up from The Tap Room.
From the names mentioned above it would appear that most of the Detroit Belgians were Flemish [Dutch speaking] vs Walloons [French]. The Cadieux Cafe seems to be the only associated French name and I wonder if that was adopted from the Detroit Cadieux, as in the street. The country is divided between those two groups along with a small German community [from which our former forum member Ghettobutterfly hailed and has since returned to].
In the 1950's they nearly came to blows but settled their differences.
That would be my guess, Lowell. I believe the owners of the Cadieux Cafe were the Devos family.
I understand the conflict between the Flemish and the Walloons in Belgium is as contentious as ever.
Gistok, I think it was Van Op Den Bosch rather than Van Den Bosch if I am thinking of the same family east of Balduck.
Brouke's bar was named after its founder Constantine [[Van) Brouke who, very roughly, must have been born around 1890-1900. About 10 years ago in a June 22 issue of the Wall Street Journal, Brouke's bar made the front page A-head column . It was an article about Heinz ketchup bottles being re-filled with generic brand catsup. Someone from the bar explained that the empty bottles were washed out in between refilling them. The WSJ reporter was aghast at what seemed reasonable to Belgians. It must have been cheaper to buy in bulk instead of having to pay for catsup bottles that just get thrown away.
I forgot Allemon's nursury in the above list of businesses and should add Claerhout, VanOpdenBosch, and VanZile Construction outfits.
Lowell, Detroit was the largest Flemish and Balgian settlement in the US. The Green Bay Wisconsin area was the largest Walloon settlement. I often wondered about the name 'Walloon Lake'.
__________________________________________________
List of most common Flemish and Walloon surnames.
Find where in Belgium a surname is found. For instance, type in 'De Clerck' and click 'zoek'.
Seems like there was a Belgium restaurant or private club in Farmington on Grand River, a block from Powers Road, in the 1970's. If I'm mistaken, then I'm thinking of something else. Farmington Lanes was along there too.
There was a hugh population of Belgians in what is now called Creekside. That area was a large swamp type locale. Belgians were called Muskrat French.
There are a few homes left on Cadiuex showing the "alley homes".
I remember when they raced pigeons from the Cadieux Cafe. A coop was on the back of the bar.
It has been almost 50 years since I have heard someone refer to Belgians as Buffaloes.Quote:
Originally Posted by oladub
Imagine my disappointment as a young Belgian-American to learn in the first grade of elementary school that I wasn't part of the lineage of that stately and noble creature that roamed the West unabated, providing sustenance for it's native inhabitants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermod
Ha! When I lived on the east side of Detroit a few of my Belgian friends still referred to Belgians with the "B word". :)
Thanks very much for your help. It looks like a trip down Harper and through East English Village should be a good introduction to the old Belgian neighborhood.
Are there any specific businesses or commercial stretches that were part of the neighborhood?
A very odd coincidence: my last name has been mentioned on this thread. ??!!??
Detroit St. was in the core of the Belgian neighborhood. My Mother often spoke French over the fence to many. If you go down the street today you can still see the pigeon coops atop many houses, especially on the North side of the street.
Two more precious remnants of Belgian Detroit are located in Roseville. The Genealogical Society of Flemish Americans [[GSFA for short) and "Belgian Publishing", publishers of the Gazette van Detroit [[now in its 96th year) are both housed in the basement of the American House East II on 13 Mile Road. That retirement complex was built by a Belgian [[Rene De Seranno) for other Belgians, but there are very few left now [[Msgr. De Cneudt still hanging on) and the "Father Taillieu Home", as it was originally called, itself has changed hands.
The non-profit GSFA runs the Leon Buyse Library there, where Americans with Flemish roots can go and research their family history and learn more about their land of origin. They accept all donations of Belgian memorabilia, pictures, death cards, letters, books, etc. If you don't know what to do with them.
The Gazette van Detroit was started as a Flemish language community weekly by the Eastside Belgians in 1914. It survives as a biweekly in English and Flemish. Some of the local libraries carry it and free copies can often be found at the some restaurants in the area.
Didn't one of the owners of the Cadiex Cafe die of pigeon fever. Was Sr. Borromeo an IHM, did she teach at Holy Redeemer?
Fire at Our Lady of Sorrows Church, [[parish established 1884), was caused by an explosion at theQuote:
Originally Posted by oladub
"Briggs - Chrysler Factory" North across Benson.
http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/v/vmc/thumb/5/_/7/34305_7.jpg http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/v/vmc/thumb/5/_/1/34305_1.jpg
Pastor for many years was Fr. Van Hout who's family came as refugees from Belgium after WWII. Other priests, Fr. D'Cnut [[sp?) pastored St. Joan of Arc, St. Clair Shores, and Fr. Bonine [[sp?)
The school was next to the church, South on Meldrum, had two stories, 8 grades taught by Dominican nuns of Adrian. Sr. Joseph Cecila O.P., principal for many years.
Other Sisters: Anita Marie, Marie Michael, Seraphica, Mary Helen, Henrietta, etc.
The next building was the convent then the parking lot and then the house where the janitor/maintenance man lived. Across the street from the church, on the south west corner, was Steiner's Bar & restaurant. For many years the house on the north west corner was occupied by the Kranz family. The rectory was East of the church on Benson and connected to the church. The beautiful stained-glass windows in the church all had Belgian names mostly
Flemish. By the 1940's the area businesses, parishioners and students were primarily Italian, especially Sicilian.
Dave Debusschere [[Belgian-American) was a famous Basketball player [[Pistons) who also played baseball for Chicago White Sox. His Dad had been a beer distributor and owned the Lycaste Bar on E. Jefferson.
Q: "...Was Sr. Borromeo an IHM, did she teach at Holy Redeemer?..."
She and two of her sisters joined the IHM order. I think she did teach at Holy Redeemer, and other schools.
All those pigeon coops in our eastside Belgian neighborhood near Balduck Park reminded me of something..... Squab was a Belgian delicacy.
Paraphrasing Homer Simpson.... "mmmmmmm Pigeon"...... :[[
You call them Cornish hens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Joseph de Veuster was born to a farming couple in Tremeloo, Belgium. He attended college at Braine-le-Comte then entered the novitiate of the Congregation of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary, SS.CC. taking the name of Damien in his first vows. This is Father Damien that established a colony in Molokai to care for the lepers of Hawaii.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gingersays
Louis Rabaut, former Congressman [[14th District) was Flemish.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_C._Rabaut
Louis Rabaut's father owned the city's major fireworks store [[back when such things were legal), on the south side of Congress across from the old County Bldg.
Thanks oladub and Ginger for the stories on Our Lady of Sorrows. I had a good friend who lived near the new building on Meldrum, and I used to go into Coachman's record store just around the corner on Charelvoix to talk to the man himself, and had always wondered why that church had obviously been replaced at a time when so many other Catholic churches on the east side were starting to close. I knew that some Italians still went there back then, but I didn't know that it had been a Belgian church at one time.
As for the term "buffalo," my grandfather [[not Belgian, Irish) sure used it a lot. In fact, one of his very close friends was universally known in the family as "Buffalo Dave." Which was used to differentiate him from another friend of Hungarian origin named "Hunky Dave." Funny thing was, for many years after their Hungarian friend died, and continuing for the rest of his life, everyone still called Buffalo Dave "Buffalo Dave."
All the Belgians family and friends I know refer to ourselves as Buffalos. I see Buffalo girl mentioned the Gazette van Detroit? My friend's dad gets it and he gave me a copy. Some of it is in English some in Flemish. The comics weren't funny...something must've been lost in the translation, ha. Oh, here's a web site for it: http://www.gazettevandetroit.com/ - looks like it hasn't been updated since the summer.
The Cadieux has been owned by the Devos since the '60s, but it's been around even longer than that. The current generation [[Ron Devos and Paul Misuraca) has owned it for 20 years now. There's another Cadieux thead on this board. It's really an awesome place. People say both good and bad things about the food, but you can't argue with the featherbowling, the beer selection and the great people.
Gezonheid!
I went to Cadieux Cafe last night with a good friend for his birthday. We had a great dinner and drinks. The place is great - an old institution still functioning. I wish them the best. I go there 2-3 times a year, I enjoy visiting the old neighborhood.
What HS would have had the largest Belgian student body?
Austin H.S.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
Wow^ [and slight threadjack]. For all the times I have seeen this image I never noticed that the firemen were carrying out what has to be the crucifix. It reminds me of those numerous deposition from the cross paintings.Quote:
Originally Posted by oladub
I wonder what happened to that crucifix. Presumably it went to the new church mentioned above, but then where? There is an Our Lady of Sorrows, near enough to me to hear its bells, in Farmington village. I wonder if it ended up there. I will have to check. Sorrows is today the largest Catholic congregation in the metro but has no ethnic identity.
Addendum... since I should have done more research... This was asked, du-uh, but never answered on the old forum here... http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/6790/80774.html?1156854665.
Since Sorrows merged with Annunication at 1265 Parkview Avenue, Detroit, MI 48214-3009 who presumably had its crucifixes it seems that the question is open and that the Farmington Sorrows is another parish with the same name?
My B-A cousins in Harper Woods went to Bishop Gallagher High School. I imagine those who could afford Catholic schools sent their children to a Catholic high school like Austin or BG.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM
There were a number of us at Notre Dame High, too.
We had a neighbor, Mr. Van, who lived three doors down from us on Farmbrook. My dad and he were pretty good friends. Mr Van [Van der Vecken [[sp?)] had a large pigeon coop atop his garage. Every once in a while my father would take a gunny sack of six or eight pigeons from him, put them in the trunk of his car, then drive out Gratiot to about 21 Mile Road. He'd note the time and then release the birds. Mr Van would then note the time they returned to the coop.
The Detroit News used to have a magazine included in the Sunday edition. One time, on the cover of the magazine was an aerial view of Detroit. The picture was color-coded to show where the ethnics were mostly living. Seems to me that "green" was the color code for Belgians. Green was the predominant color for my area.
I think we German Lutherans kind of got lost in the mix. But, what a great neighborhood!
My Dad had relatives who were involved with racing pigeons and lived on the east side; Detroit, Harper Woods, St Clair Shores. We lived on the west side. He brought home some pigeons and built a coop for them in the garage. However, the pigeons would spend the day atop a neighbor's garage roof and he took exception to having them there and all that their presence implied. The pigeons were soon gone.
I did not immediately recognize Cobo as a Belgian name, but when I looked it up on the site www.familienaam.be [[and also at http://home.scarlet.be/marcel.vervloet/), it turned out to be one of the variants of Cobbaut, and there are still Cobo's living in Belgium. Can anyone tell me some more about mayor Cobo and his family?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermod
There was also a mayor Van Antwerp, but his ancestors supposedly came from New York where they had arrived long ago, in the Dutch time!
This may come too late to help you but my friend Margaret told me that a man called Stewart McMillan who lives in Detroit's Indian Village has given private tours of Belgian Detroit in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by skyl4rk
I understand he's a researcher and history buff. You can find him in the Detroit White Pages.
Stewart is a walking encyclopedia of local, and world, history. Been to just about every nation on Earth.
He also piqued the interest of this bored high school student who at least partially woke up to the world around him while taking a civics class from Mr McMillan, many moons ago!
That would be the bar owned by Bill and Madeline Brennan. She was Belgian but he was Irish, I believe. It was located on Mack Ave in the vicinity of Drexel or Lenox.Quote:
Originally Posted by eno
Re Velodromes, does anyone know about the velodrome, possibly the very first one in Detroit, once located on the grounds of St John Berchman grade school Lakeview just east of Warren? I remember the remnants of the cement footings on the playgound. However, the earliest velodrome in my memory was on Harper a little north of Morang. It had very steep sides and I rmember going there for the six-day races which brought in riders from New York and many other places.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowell
The Belgians in Detroit were primarily the Flemish or Dutch-speaking I think that Wisconsin has more of the Walloons. Cadieux Cafe got it's name from the street, I am sure, because the owner previous to the Devos family was a man by the name of Elie Calmeyn and the bar was always referred to as Calmeyn's at that time. Another old Belgian owned bar years ago was the Green Oaks on Harper north of Morang. It had one of those huge mechanical organs and was a popular spot for dancing. They also had an archery club which met there and they competed outdoors in a sort of a screen enclosure and shot up to the skyQuote:
Originally Posted by Lowell
Most of the Belgians here in the Detroit area are Flemish,or Dutch speaking I think. It seems that many of the Walloons went to WisconsinQuote:
Originally Posted by Lowell
I thought that I had responded to this item last night. Did I neglect to do something? i am a new participant.
I apologize, I found my original reply but I still don't understand why I have such trouble logging in. I get rejected 3 or 4 times and get discouraged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy R
The area around Finney GRADE SCHOOL had many Bs. Lots of garage and basement homes awaiting the money for a house. "Skit der bruck" were the first cuss words I learned.Translation? On Harper between Moross and Vernier was abig Belgian tavern with outside bow and arrow shooting at balloons up in a huge net-also a velodrome and bike club.Austins first and De Busschere's coach Chuck Hollosy still alive in St. Marys, GA. I'm a Finney and Denby alum. Finney HS now closed.
I was told there is a gentleman by the name of Stewart McMillan who lives in Indian Village and who gives private tours of Belgian Detroit...Quote:
Originally Posted by skyl4rk
One of the main Belgian parishes on the East Side in the 1950s was St. Philomena, a small church and parish on Marseilles near Mack, a few blocks east of Cadieux and Mack. A number of homes in the parish featured pigeon coops for racing birds. Confessions were regularly heard in Flemish, and a priest sometimes celebrated Flemish-language masses. As for high school, Belgians were pretty well spread out among Austin, Finney, Bishop Gallagher, Servite.
Did someone say Mayor Cobo was Belgian? Really?
Henry Ford was half Belgian-American. His mother was first generation American from Belgian immigrant parents.
Henry Ford was born July 30, 1863, on a farm in Greenfield Township [[near Detroit, Michigan).[1] His father, William Ford [[1826–1905), was born in County Cork, Ireland. His mother, Mary Litogot Ford [[1839–1876), was born in Michigan; she was the youngest child of Belgian immigrants;
from Wikipedia
Bill Rush said: "Lots of garage and basement homes awaiting the money for a house."
Over the years, I’ve noticed that many parties were hosted in the garage. The house was not used, except for preparing food. I never realized this tradition was odd until my sister-in-law [[from Virginia) asked if everyone in Detroit parties in his or her garage?
Did the Belgians start this, and then everybody else decided to do the same?
It roughly means "go s- in your pants" and would be used to convey the same general message as telling someone to "go f- yourself" in English.Quote:
BillRush asks, "The area around Finney GRADE SCHOOL had many Bs. Lots of garage and basement homes awaiting the money for a house. "Skit der bruck" were the first cuss words I learned.Translation? "
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A not related anecdote:
On Farmbrook as a kid, I used to hang out at the Szarzinski's. The lady next door was known to us as 'Buffalo Emma". She was kind of a grumpy[[to us anyway) heavy lady with a disapproving demeanor. One day we were doing boy experiments with cherry bombs - using them to shoot things out of pipes, blow up cans - that type of thing. I guess she didn't like what we were up to so she came out into her back yard to glower at us just in time for us to see what would happen when we blew up a cherry bomb that we had covered with glued BB's. One seems to have hit her in the rear because she jerked and then ambled off to her house without saying anything.
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I believe another Belgian church [[on Coplin nr E. Warren) was St. John Berchman, now closed. He is a Belgian saint. Servite High School was attached to the church and it was co-ed-so perhaps there are some Belgian women around Detroit who once went there.
I found quite a bit more information worth including in this thread. For now, time permits me only two of them. More to come.
Lowell said he wondered what happened to the original crucifix from the original Our Lady of Sorrows Catholic Church on Meldrum and Benson. Thankfully, the Flemish holy relic can now be viewed at St. Margaret of Scotland Catholic Church on 13 Mile Road in St. Clair Shores [[where many descendants of Detroit's original Belgian immigrants reside).
http://www.themichigancatholic.org/2011/10/historic-verbiest-crucifix-restored-to-hang-again/
It was considered lost for many years, but was found and lovingly restored. With a nod to those who saved it, off-duty fire fighters brought the crucifix into a church, this time, St. Margaret's
Attachment 31910
On a sadder note, I found a series of exterior and interior photos of the Belgian Hall on Facebook under the heading: "The Sad Story of Belgian Hall in Detroit" ; I don't know when these were taken, but it is pretty rough. According to one of the subsequent posts, it burned down September 2015. https://www.facebook.com/43978473622...44101525790850
This church was founded by Belgians.
Designed by Peter Dederichs. Saint Charles Borromeo Roman Catholic Parish 1515 Baldwin built 1918-1919 Islandview Neighborhood Detroit, MI.
Henry & Clara Ford are buried in a small cemetery on the grounds of this church. Clara Ford donated one million dollars to help build the church.Quote:
Originally Posted by eno
Designed by Giffels & Valet Inc., L. Rossetti. Saint Martha's Episcopal Church 15801 Joy Road built in 1952 Herman Gardens Neighborhood, Detroit, MI
Thank you for remembering St. John Berchmann. Yes, it was a very Belgian Church and one that is very dear to me. My dad and his family lived at 4821 Coplin, just across for the Church & school. My grandfather worked there as the boiler operator, carpenter & custodian. To anyone who remembers how uncomfortable the "balcony" seating was, you have my grandfather to thank, he made them. There was never a formal church building. The first order of business was to build the school. Church services were held in the gymnasium with the intent to build a church building later. That never happened. Even so, there were over 5000 families attending St. John's, second only in the Archdiocese of Detroit to Shrine of the Little Flower. To all who went there, or who attended Servite High, it was a very special and blessed place. I attended the last mass there. It was heartbreaking and I shed tears even today as I write this.Quote:
Originally Posted by swiburn
To those for whom these things are still precious, attend your inner city churches.
If anyone who attended St. John's a loooong time ago should remember the custodian, Mr. Van please let me know.
This was considered the "mother church" of Belgians [[mostly Flemish) on the near East Side. Our Lady of Sorrows was also a predominately Belgian church, but shared it with a great number of Italians [[mother church = San Francesco) and Germans [[mother church = St. Joseph [I think...please correct me if I'm wrong]) The "mother church" might not necessarily be your parish church, but was where the main religious family events would occur. For example, when my parents were first married, they went to Our Lady of Sorrows. When I was born, however, I was baptized at San Francesco.
To quote a former Detroit resident "You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone." Boy, ain't it the truth! Don't wait until the civic treasure is gone lest you experience even more regrets over the loss of another civic treasure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Van
Speaking of which, as promised earlier:
Here are some photos of the fire that took Our Lady of Sorrows in 1963, along with some news stories in these clippings from the Detroit Free Press. [[I hope I don't make any hideous uploading errors!)
Attachment 32249
Here's an overhead shot of the church on fire you may not have seen; the Briggs factory is to the left of the church across Benson St. Note how densely packed the neighborhood is.
Attachment 32251
Map with another exterior shot
Attachment 32252
The inner city churches, in particular the traditional crucifix-shaped Catholic churches, are very important to a growing community of Catholics who harken back to the traditional pre-Vatican II, Latin Mass. The old churches in town were specifically built to incorporate practices such offering the Mass ad orientem [[instead of facing the people) at the altar and utilizing communion rails. These adjustments can easily be accomplished in the older churches who had them originally.
Attachment 32253
St. Charles is still an active Catholic parish. The parish was saved, and the building renovated, by the Capuchin fathers from the nearby monastery on Mt. Elliott. Among its charms is a lovely old Wurlitzer pipe organ.Quote:
Originally Posted by p69rrh51
My great-grandmother and my grandfather and his sisters went to church there when they lived on Field between Jefferson and Lafayette. They were Irish, but the church and the neighborhood was indeed largely Flemish Belgian then. My grandfather was baptized in the previous church on Field between St. Paul and Agnes, and my father [[who never has actually been a practicing Catholic) was baptized in this building, which was built around 1918. My grandfather also attended school at St. Charles for a few years.